Author Topic: Making big mods  (Read 2601 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline asyikarea51

  • 210
  • -__-||
I've always wondered - when you guys start mods, especially total conversions like BtRL or WCS (or other big mods like Inferno), where exactly does everything start?

The ships and weapons tables? Missions? Or something/somewhere else??? :doubt:

I'm stumped as to where to start when it comes to making a mod. (Then again, it's not like I have the skills to do a big mod - just that this question's been bugging me for a long while now.) :)

Planning, dedication to see it through till the end, blah blah blah... :wtf:

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Flak big mods. I can't even get off my lazy ass to do a 10 mission campaign with no mods or additions. :doubt:

 

Offline Unknown Target

  • Get off my lawn!
  • 212
  • Push.Pull?
Well BtRL started with Omniscaper making a couple models. People just started signing on from there. If it's just you alone you should start with getting the gameplay done, writing out a design doc, etc. Models should come second IMO, or maybe just one ship to start with. Sure, it looks pretty, but what use is a model unless you have the gameplay ready?
Although you should really write out a design doc first, so you don't make a model with five gun turrets and in the tables you only have it having one laser gun or something.

 

Offline Nuke

  • Ka-Boom!
  • 212
  • Mutants Worship Me
btrl is a product of overkill fanboyism, as are pretty much all the monster-mods out there.  you got a popular thing like btrl or b5, with a big enough fanbase that youy can get a massive pool of people to pull talent from. when someone trys to come up with something out of their own head, nobody knows about it, and noones intrested in helping. so unless the idea for your mod comes from a really popular tv show or movie, your chances of getting anyone to help are practically nil. ive been working on nukemod for some years now, its cool but totally lacks missions, gameplay and such. so your best hope is to master every aspect for yourself. whatever you do start out small. 10 missions 2 ships and maybe 5 new weapons. nukemod has about 20 ships and some of them were modeled for retrail. so ive had to spend alot of time redoing things to optimize for the updated engine. if you start now you can probibly design the ships right the first time.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline asyikarea51

  • 210
  • -__-||
Point taken. :)

Since I'm in school now doing a mechanical course of sorts, it's very likely impossible for me to learn 3d modelling part time. Starting with the basics is the way to go, I guess... but I'm feeling the pinch already - other than the Ezechiel, I haven't found any other HTL fighter models out there that fit an FS-like theme.

Big ships on the other hand... plenty. :nervous:

 

Offline DarkShadow-

  • 28
  • Machina Terra
I'm using the INF:A ones, imo they perfectly fit as terran fighters.

I'm working on my own mod for about two years now. Usually everything starts with a small idea. I planned to create some weapons for capships that are more "realistic" then the FS2 ones (mass drivers, machineguns and missiles, like the ones the Daedalus in Stargate uses). First of all, I started playing with the tables, changing some things here and there, using the INF:R1 vps. More and more I got a feeling how my fleet should look like, so I scrapped some of the ships and used other models (especially the ones Trashman released, they perfectly fit). I changed textures for some ships so they fit to the fleet in general (the terran ships all should have a grey/black look). I'm no expert at this so mainly I just greyscaled existing textures. Then I started to edit the models itself, changing some gunpoint vectors and other details.

While doing that, from time to time I got ideas about the story. All ships are using "realistic" weapons and I wanted to create something new, so it shouldn't play in the FS universe. I didn't use a completely new race/world, I used earth in it's current status and took a look into the future, how things could be. While the campaign plays in the future, I'm now writing a background story that explains all the political and technological advancements that lead to this future. Usually, for a good story concerning fighting, you need an enemy that's very powerful and superiour to you. So my enemy uses beam weapons and other futuristic stuff, making every ship more powerful then it's terran counterpart. For the campaign story, I already now how it starts, about the main arcs and how it should end. Now I need to get ideas for the missions to explain this story in an interesting way, imo that's the hardest part (some are already finished and I'm planning to release a demo soon).

I'm doing all this stuff on my own for two reasons:
1. As I said, the few things I've finished took me two years and I don't want other persons to work for something that takes too long, they'll obviously lose interest. First I wanna finish a design doc for every mission.
2. As already mentioned, I'm sure that few to no people would join the project if I don't have anything decent to present, so I'll finish the campaign and all basic parts first.

I hope that, after the release, I get some people interested in the project (especially modelers and texturers) so they can change the models/textures in a way I'm not able to do, making it look even better.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, isn't 'Eureka!' but rather 'hmm....that's funny.'" Isaac Asimov

 

Offline Nuke

  • Ka-Boom!
  • 212
  • Mutants Worship Me
you could probibly learn things like modeling and texturing in less time than youd be on any waiting list for modders to help you. i had alot of trouble finding people to texture my stuff. i had one fighter done by somone else. the results werent that good. so i startid cut and paste texturing basing my textures off the ones from freespace. still not satisfied i started thinking of what it took to make each texture and started making original trextures from scratch. editing tables is small beans when compaired to doing more complex things like modeling or texturing or harder stuff like scripting and programming. the good thing about the hard stuff is it can be applied to any engine or even your own, which is where im at at the moment.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Unknown Target

  • Get off my lawn!
  • 212
  • Push.Pull?
Indeed. But people underestimate the importance of tables and good game design - nomatter how pretty your models are, no one will want to play it unless it's fun. :)

 

Offline asyikarea51

  • 210
  • -__-||
I'll admit I haven't anything to say right now, but I'll keep watching the thread. :)

Right now all I'm doing is FREDding a mission using mediavps content for a start, will probably finish it tomorrow since it's 10 minutes to midnight here

Pity there's no such thing as a cure for laziness. :P I must change my mindset... :( :mad:

 

Offline CP5670

  • Dr. Evil
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
I agree that it makes sense to start off with missions before anything else, unless it's a TC not set in the Freespace universe. That is, after all, the central part of any campaign or TC. All the other stuff only exists to enhance the missions. Unfortunately, the missions also take much longer than anything else to make, if you really want to make them perfect. I tend to spend anywhere between 20 and 50 hours total on a given mission, usually spread out over three or four weeks.

In the case of PI, interestingly enough, it was the result of scrapping another project in favor of something more realistic. The other thing was your standard epic campaign with 100+ missions, dynamic branching, and so on that I lost interest in after making six missions. :p This time, I simply started off with a mission with a specific gameplay situation I had in mind, without paying any attention to the story. The mission ran off the table changes I had made for the other campaign (only table mods; there were almost no new ships back then, as very few people could model and all the pof converters were buggy). The next couple of missions were made the same way, and the details of the story were only fleshed out after that.

 

Offline asyikarea51

  • 210
  • -__-||
The only thing I've added to the tables so far is the good-ol' Valkyrie. :lol:

As much as I (or anyone else) would love to do a TC, I (we) just don't have the resources/time for it, not to mention dreamy people like me give up too dang fast. :P Similar to what Vengence is doing, I got my own universe too. :)

 

Offline Unknown Target

  • Get off my lawn!
  • 212
  • Push.Pull?
CP5670, just a correction there, tables AND missions come first - after all, you need to balance the ships before you put them into a mission :).

 

Offline Mobius

  • Back where he started
  • 213
  • Porto l'azzurro Dolce Stil Novo nella fantascienza
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • The Lightblue Ribbon | Cultural Project
I only now that FREDding is the last thing MOD projects members do...INFA and INF SCP, for example, are ok with the mods contained but most missions are yet to be done.
The Lightblue Ribbon

Inferno: Nostos - Alliance
Series Resurrecta: {{FS Wiki Portal}} -  Gehenna's Gate - The Spirit of Ptah - Serendipity (WIP) - <REDACTED> (WIP)
FreeSpace Campaign Restoration Project
A tribute to FreeSpace in my book: Riflessioni dall'Infinito

 

Offline CP5670

  • Dr. Evil
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
Quote
CP5670, just a correction there, tables AND missions come first - after all, you need to balance the ships before you put them into a mission .

Well, I'm not sure about that. I found myself constantly making changes to the tables as I went along, in order to make things work out a particular way in the missions. Of course, for some basic things you have to do the table data first (which can typically be done in just a hour or two if you have specific ideas in mind), but in general, the tables should be made to fit the missions instead of the other way around.

 

Offline asyikarea51

  • 210
  • -__-||
ohh gawd, UT, now that mention balancing...

One mission try, capship A wins. On the next, capship B wins. Rebalance tables over and over and over and over again, but I never, ever get solid odds as to who wins and loses.

I guess if you really want a specific capship to win, the answer might just be in the form of FRED, ship positions and waypoints... (great, now I'm reminded of Karajorma. Ah well. :doubt:)

@ LGM

I can see a possible weak point in having an all done-up mod without missions - balancing tables for xxx number of ships is going to be a tough act (but then again, it's just as hard when you have missions but the mod isn't done)...

 

Offline Snail

  • SC 5
  • 214
  • Posts: ☂
Just give Capship A/B a dozen or so BFReds and hey presto one of them wins.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
I do the writing first, because that's what I'm good at. :p
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline JGZinv

  • 211
  • The Last Dual! Guardian
    • The FringeSpace Conversion Mod
Well to give an outside point of view...

FringeSpace was the byproduct of RazorsKiss and myself
going over what all "could" have been done had things not
been against Tachyon from the start. The more we went into
discussion, we found some of the following...

1. The groundwork had been laid for a mod, but all others had quit or
lost interest in a project with no future.

2. We both had some of the skills necessary to work on a mod, we
both had interesting ideas as to new content, and we both got along
fairly well and were of a single mindset when it came to plowing through
large amounts of work. (Communication is "a key" so to speak)

3. Tachyon had at one time a large following, but it was lost due to many
factors in the community and of course the game never being expanded.

4. We had able minds, why not just start it ourselves.  :)

After this and we decided to go through with making a mod, we looked around
for a suitable similar program that would be able to mimic Tach's flight model.
Freespace 2 was settled on due to the modding community.

After that we gathered as much information as possible (and that's a never ending process)
concerning how to mod FS2 in particular, what was needed, what could and could not be
done with the tools or knowledge at hand, and tried to fill in "the blanks."

A website, forum, and registration/minor advertising was established afterwards to serve as
a base of operations. Shortly thereafter a project plan was penned, in order to provide some focus
and organization. A logo was made to be a symbol for the mod, and remaining players of Tach
were informed of the undertaking that was starting up.

We were able to jump "from 0 to 60" pretty quickly because we had models already.
In the process of testing and beginning to tweak, we found those models to be full
of errors, so we had to take a step back and re-evaluate what needed to be done to
get the best overall benefit. This was simply a result of we went (or tried) too far too fast
and needed to bring ourselves up in terms of skill - and recreate what we wanted.

Other fans or individuals began to fill in spots where we needed help in around this point -
the rest is pretty much in progress history.

So if you want some short points:

1. Find someone of like mind to co-author the proposed mod. Two heads are better than one.
2. Research and build up your own skills, before and during content creation. You'll always be learning.
3. Establish a structured base, a flexible yet firm plan, and advertise a bit so people know you exist.
4. Continue working at it, toss ideas around, get & give additional help as needed.
5. Don't confine yourself to a time frame if you plan to do your best. Update your "news" as often as possible.
6. Try to have some fun at what you're doing, if it's not a "labor of love" so to speak then
why be doing it in the first place?

Oh and something from personal experience, "I can't" and "impossible" shouldn't
exist in your mental vocabulary. There's always a way... you just have to be patient enough,
flexible enough, or resourceful enough to find it.  :)

Good luck  :yes:
True power comes not from strength, but from the soul and imagination.
Max to PCS2 to FS2 SCP Guide
The FringeSpace Conversion Mod

  
If you are making an original mod, it starts at the drawing board.