[Flipside]

Ok, I have Visual Studio 2005 for the next few years, so I could effectively learn to code on that, however, I've heard that the Microsoft compilers tend to do non-standard things, which can leave you shafted when the license runs out. Besides, I'd rather get used to writing in a Standard form of C++.

So, that said, can anyone recommend a good, reliable, standard C++ Compiler, I've got Bloodshed Dev C++, which looks to be pretty good, and at least looks familiar, but was wondering if anyone had any better suggestions?

[vadar_1]

nonstandard? not really. Theres a few things it will let slip by which are more strict with other compilers, but its nothing major.

Theres unique compiler directives in microsoft C for sure, but compiler directives are unique on a per compiler basis (compiler directives start with a hash (#) and aren't part of the program per say).

I would recommend Visual Studio, I have 2005 installed and its pretty nice, although I prefer 6.0 (its more simple). If you wanted to be 'standard' you would need to use GCC (it doesn't have a user interface, its command line). Thats what used at my university (although we also use C#, which is only in visual studio).

[Flipside]

Hmmm... well, one of the things I'm thinking of investigating is Multi-Thread technology, I may as well make use of it if I've got it. I've not touched the subject yet, so excuse my total ignorance, but I get the impression that this would require some of the #defs that are Compiler specific?

I don't have a problem with using Visual Studio, it's probably one of the best around at what it does, I suppose if the differences are not too startling, it's the best one to start learning C++ on because it provides so much help.

Edit : On second thoughts, multi-threading would more likely be library based?

Edit 2: A smarter move on my part would be to read this: http://www.devarticles.com/c/a/Cplusplus/Multithreading-in-C/

[blackhole]

Just don't use Borland. I've heard nasty things about its latest version.

[WMCoolmon]

It sounds to me like whoever you've been talking to has been exaggerating things in order to scare you into using a crappy OSS alternative whose only claim to fame over MSVC++ is that it has better conformance to standards.

Not that GCC itself is crappy, but I have never seen any IDE that lived up to the same expectations that I had for MSVC.

People ***** about Microsoft breaching standards all the time, and hampering innovation, and make it sound like you need to take a stand against them...and promptly offer an even worse software package as an alternative.

MHO: Don't worry about it too much. If you're developing for a platform besides Windows you should already be using GCC, which is standards-compliant. If you're developing for Windows, it's doubtful that in three years you'll be left with no way to compile your code. There's a good chance that by that time, enough time will have passed that the OSS community will have put out something good that will be able to compile all of your old MSVC projects.

Microsoft Visual C is _the_ standard for developing on Windows right now, so it'd take one hell of a market upheaval to leave you high and dry.

[jr2]

Just don't use Borland. I've heard nasty things about its latest version.

Heh... I once tried to learn C++, using Borland Turbo C++ (5?); anyways, I got a chapter or two in, to where they told me to finish a program up... I did so, but it wouldn't compile, kept giving errors; finally, I went to the answer key, grabbed their finished program, put it in, and it still wouldn't compile.  So I gave up. 

[Nuke]

i use visual c++ 6, only because i dont know of any other compilers. so id use gcc to compile for other platforms?

[blackhole]

I personally recommend Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition, as its free and its got more features then you'll know what to do with.

[Zenzic]

Compiler used by MSVC++ 2005 is very standards compliant (although i don't think C++ really has one officially). Personally i would use MSVC purely because of the IDE. it much better featured than anything else OSS community has come out with. I am sure they will catch up eventually, but for the time being MSVS ftw.

Whatever you do don't use MSVC6 compiler that was piece of ****.

And anyone who says "Real programmers code in notepad" (or worse emacs) doesn't do programming for a living. Just thought i say that before someone else says it

[karajorma]

It sounds to me like whoever you've been talking to has been exaggerating things in order to scare you into using a crappy OSS alternative whose only claim to fame over MSVC++ is that it has better conformance to standards.

For 2005 I'd probably agree with you but if their experience is with MSVC6 I can understand.

That standards non-compliance thing with for loops can really **** you in the arse if you ever have to compile on a non-MS compiler. I've heard anecdotes of people getting hundreds of errors from that alone because they'd gotten into the habit of using variables that were considered out of scope on pretty much every other compiler. 

Of course you don't have to swap IDE's. Simply be aware of the problem.

[blackhole]

Usually, i can successfully compile any program i wrote in Visual C++ in Dev-cpp if i don't use the _s() functions.

Some of the #pragma commands are compiler specific, however.

[WMCoolmon]

It sounds to me like whoever you've been talking to has been exaggerating things in order to scare you into using a crappy OSS alternative whose only claim to fame over MSVC++ is that it has better conformance to standards.

For 2005 I'd probably agree with you but if their experience is with MSVC6 I can understand.

Besides finding an excuse to contradict me, what was the point of this statement? Flipside explicitly stated he was using MSVC2005; if somebody was giving him advice based on their experience with a different version of the program than Flipside has, it's even more liable to be wrong. (Especially with something as old as VC6)

That's like somebody recommending that somebody else not even try the SCP or any mods based on their experience with vanilla FS2.

[karajorma]

Do you go looking for stupid arguments to get into with me?

however, I've heard that the Microsoft compilers tend to do non-standard things, which can leave you shafted when the license runs out. Besides, I'd rather get used to writing in a Standard form of C++.

I'm pointing out where some of the horrors stories about MS compilers doing non-standard things come from and why flipside can pretty much ignore them when it comes to 2005.

In other words I'm ****ing agreeing with you!