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Author Topic: Honda FCX Clarity  (Read 1689 times)

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Offline Kosh

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Honda FCX Clarity
on: March 30, 2008, 04:44:41 am
I heard this recently went on sale, how much does it cost?
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline IceFire

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #1 on: March 30, 2008, 09:11:43 am
Quote from: Kosh on March 30, 2008, 04:44:41 am
I heard this recently went on sale, how much does it cost?
Its not on sale.  I believe its only available in California and its a $600 a month lease.  The cars themselves cost allot more to make at this point because its a limited production run, they are hand built, and the technology is still too expensive.  Its a step in the right direction and it will hopefully spur things to move forward...we'll be needing hydrogen infrastructure either to fuel up in peoples homes using natural gas or through more traditional gas stations.

Apparently its a very nice car.  Acceleration is high, its got all of the usual Honda safety features, etc. etc.

Rumor has it that Honda will be announcing a world hybrid model to replace the Honda Civic Hybrid and it will look quite similar to the FCX.
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 09:24:52 am
Quote
Its a step in the right direction and it will hopefully spur things to move forward...we'll be needing hydrogen infrastructure either to fuel up in peoples homes using natural gas or through more traditional gas stations.


California is building a hydrogen highway, I think a couple of other states are doing the same thing. However, it's just one highway in these places, and even then its nowhere near complete. Even when it is complete, it's not enough.

Here's another question, how are they going to make the Hydrogen? I don't think that pushing natural gas is a good idea, considering how strained the supplies already are. 
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline Roanoke

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #3 on: March 30, 2008, 01:12:39 pm
The thing with non-petrol driven cars is the technology is still in it's infancy and there's no infastructure inplace to support them. Ofcourse, no-one will build such infastructure untill the cars sell well enough to warrant it. And no-one wants to really push for a given technology if it gets left by the way-side infavour of other alternatives.
Chicken and the egg and all that.

Politicians like to tell us how politics is all about leadership. This is an area where they could really have a positive impact but so far no-one's been willing to "step up" (as they say).
 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #4 on: March 30, 2008, 02:05:39 pm
Quote
This is an area where they could really have a positive impact but so far no-one's been willing to "step up" (as they say).


I suspect all those campaign contributions from the oil industry softened them.......
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline IceFire

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #5 on: March 30, 2008, 05:45:40 pm
Quote from: Kosh on March 30, 2008, 09:24:52 am
Quote
Its a step in the right direction and it will hopefully spur things to move forward...we'll be needing hydrogen infrastructure either to fuel up in peoples homes using natural gas or through more traditional gas stations.


California is building a hydrogen highway, I think a couple of other states are doing the same thing. However, it's just one highway in these places, and even then its nowhere near complete. Even when it is complete, it's not enough.

Here's another question, how are they going to make the Hydrogen? I don't think that pushing natural gas is a good idea, considering how strained the supplies already are. 
I agree...natural gas isn't the way to go.  I feel that, given all the reading I've done, making hydrogen will not be a problem given time.  There are a whole bunch of ways we know how to make it right now but the returns are not so good.  But give it 5-10 years as the other parts of the equation ramp up and I think they will be breaking even.  The way of doing things with oil has had decades to be refined...hydrogen will take some time.

At this point it does seem better than going with ethanol although biofuels may still factor in.  Some sort of combined economy with both may exist for a while.

Either way its good to have Honda and others going forward on this now. It'll help when people pose the argument that there isn't a usable car that takes hydrogen and the answer is that there is and Honda isn't the only one.  GM has a few that are hydrogen electric (the Volt is an awesome concept - hope they do it right) and BMW has a hydrogen based sedan.
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #6 on: March 30, 2008, 09:01:29 pm
Quote
There are a whole bunch of ways we know how to make it right now but the returns are not so good.  But give it 5-10 years as the other parts of the equation ramp up and I think they will be breaking even.  The way of doing things with oil has had decades to be refined...hydrogen will take some time

There is a huge difference. For one thing oil has a very high energy density, and on top of that it is discovered and pumped out of the ground with little cost. Hydrogen as a medium for energy storage is very inefficient, and it isn't discovered it is manufactured.

Personally I think nuclear is the only real way to mass manufacture hydrogen at a reasonable price. However, even with this I believe the era of cheap energy is coming to an end
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline IceFire

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #7 on: March 30, 2008, 10:20:09 pm
Quote from: Kosh on March 30, 2008, 09:01:29 pm
Quote
There are a whole bunch of ways we know how to make it right now but the returns are not so good.  But give it 5-10 years as the other parts of the equation ramp up and I think they will be breaking even.  The way of doing things with oil has had decades to be refined...hydrogen will take some time

There is a huge difference. For one thing oil has a very high energy density, and on top of that it is discovered and pumped out of the ground with little cost. Hydrogen as a medium for energy storage is very inefficient, and it isn't discovered it is manufactured.

Personally I think nuclear is the only real way to mass manufacture hydrogen at a reasonable price. However, even with this I believe the era of cheap energy is coming to an end
Oh I know.  But in the absence of oil...it seems like hydrogen is probably the next best bet and we'll have to learn how to do it more and more efficiently.

Actually the FCX as far as a drivers car goes is apparently quite good.  Acceleration is excellent thanks to the electric motors.  The range isn't quite at the same level as an average sedan but probably about SUV ranged so no huge loss there either.  Aside from the expense of the car itself...its in pretty good shape.  Maybe a decade worth of development and infrastructure work and it'll be ready to be part of the lime light.

Optimism!
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
 

Offline Kosh

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 12:22:32 am
Quote
Maybe a decade worth of development and infrastructure work and it'll be ready to be part of the lime light.

What's really needed is some real political leadership on this issue at a national level, but frankly I wouldn't expect to see it anytime soon (if at all) given that DC is drowning in petrodollars in the form of campaign finance contributions. Except for his feel good speeches about fuel cells, what has Bush done in the last 8 years to prepare us for the expected peak in oil production?
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline redsniper

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #9 on: March 31, 2008, 11:54:09 am
invaded the Middle East? :nervous:
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The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

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Offline IceFire

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Re: Honda FCX Clarity
Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 07:27:15 pm
Quote from: redsniper on March 31, 2008, 11:54:09 am
invaded the Middle East? :nervous:
That is probably allot easier than moving forward on alternative energy.
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."
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