[Nuke]

i personally refuse to throw any more money an higher education unt+

He's saying a lot of things here. I don't have my glasses.

ctrl+

[IceFire]

But my classes are almost all AP. -.-

Then say bye bye to the future of the us

Not sure what AP means but its probably the equivalent of Advanced courses in Ontario High Schools.  Actually I think they have a new name which is "University Stream" or in other words the kids who are likely to go to University as opposed to College.  Which to explain to the Americans...Universities are academic institutions while Colleges are technical and applied schools.

Anyways ...regardless of what level it is in High School ...its still High School.  Its a regurgitation session...there isn't any actual thinking going on.  Wait till University...then your peers will start to think for themselves.  They will be dragged kicking and screaming but some of them will even make it by the end and be able to critically look at the world around them.

[Polpolion]

But my classes are almost all AP. -.-

Then say bye bye to the future of the us

Not sure what AP means but its probably the equivalent of Advanced courses in Ontario High Schools.  Actually I think they have a new name which is "University Stream" or in other words the kids who are likely to go to University as opposed to College.  Which to explain to the Americans...Universities are academic institutions while Colleges are technical and applied schools.

Anyways ...regardless of what level it is in High School ...its still High School.  Its a regurgitation session...there isn't any actual thinking going on.  Wait till University...then your peers will start to think for themselves.  They will be dragged kicking and screaming but some of them will even make it by the end and be able to critically look at the world around them.

AP means its a class that is beyond what would normally taught in high school. So much so that people get college credit for it. They're not exactly college classes, but they're certainly a lot harder than normal classes.

Most of them where I go to school are sequential; you have to take all of the preceding courses to be able to take it. And since there are usually 3 or 4 preceding courses, most of the time you have to skip a class or take it in middle school.

[Rian]

The main difference between AP and regular high school classes is that at the end of the year AP students have an opportunity to take a standardized exam based on the curriculum of the equivalent introductory course in college. Universities may or may not give credit for a passing score on the exam, and they can choose for themselves what qualifies as a passing score.

The classes themselves, in my experience, were structured more like ordinary high school classes than like college classes, and they’re generally taught by high school teachers. The content may be similar to the equivalent college course, but I didn’t find the experience to be at all comparable.

[CP5670]

The classes themselves, in my experience, were structured more like ordinary high school classes than like college classes, and they’re generally taught by high school teachers. The content may be similar to the equivalent college course, but I didn’t find the experience to be at all comparable.

There wasn't much of a difference in my case, even compared to the regular, non-AP classes. From what I have seen, the intro level classes at most colleges are largely still run in a high school-ish way in terms of what is expected of students, how grades are determined, the nature and interval of assignments, etc. I only saw differences with this in upper level and graduate classes. (and even those vary a lot with the school and professor, with some being far better than others)

[General Battuta]

The classes themselves, in my experience, were structured more like ordinary high school classes than like college classes, and they’re generally taught by high school teachers. The content may be similar to the equivalent college course, but I didn’t find the experience to be at all comparable.

There wasn't much of a difference in my case, even compared to the regular, non-AP classes. From what I have seen, the intro level classes at most colleges are largely still run in a high school-ish way in terms of what is expected of students, how grades are determined, the nature and interval of assignments, etc. I only saw differences with this in upper level and graduate classes. (and even those vary a lot with the school and professor, with some being far better than others)

It definitely depends on the caliber of the college you're at. (Which is not a shot at you, CP!)

[Galemp]

CP goes to Princeton University

[General Battuta]

CP goes to Princeton University

That's why it definitely wasn't intended as a shot at him; Princeton is a great school. But Princeton (like most big research universities) isn't necessarily renowned solely for the caliber of its undergraduate education.

I go to a school of a similar caliber but different style, and the classes here are very different from high school. But, again, it all depends on your professor and what kind of high school you went to. And I'm not saying U of C is superior to Princeton, that's absurd; at this level there's not really any difference.

It all depends largely on what you make of the experience. School rankings are silly.

[CP5670]

Well, I'm a grad student here. I was at Maryland as an undergrad, a reasonably good but not top tier school. However, I see many of the same kinds of things here that I experienced (from the other side now, as a TA ).

One example of the sort of thing I'm referring to is the discussions/recitations tied into a lot of classes. Almost every school has these things at the intro levels. The ones I had were a nuisance, messing up your course schedule and rarely covering anything new or worthwhile. It's common to have to take weekly quizzes or something there that forces you to attend. (in fact, forced attendance in general is another annoyance often seen in low level classes)

There is actually a more pronounced difference in the upper level undergrad courses here and a huge difference in the graduate courses, but that is unique to the math department and doesn't apply to any others here.

[perihelion]

Ah.  Math department.  That's all you needed to say.   

Joking.  Joking.  In all seriousness, my freshman and sophomore years were quite different than my last years in high-school.  For one thing, the classes didn't meet everyday, and the homework jacked up through the roof.  In high-school, we were practically spoon-fed.  At the university level, all of sudden you had to teach yourself a lot of the material you'd need to pass the course.  Sometimes that was an indictment of the professor, but more often than not it was because the material was just covered too quickly (had to be, or you'd never manage to finish all the course objectives) and you had to go back over everything with a fine tooth comb to figure out why you kept getting wrong answers on your homework.

Grad school was another paradigm shift, but that varies even more from one school to the next.  UIUC was... a pressure cooker.  The faculty were under so much pressure to publish and win more grant money that they barely qualified as human anymore.  Students were only useful for the research legwork they could do.  Those students who were on fellowships were treated decently because they brought their money with them.  Students who were funded by the university as research or teaching assistants were little better than slaves.  I know that sounds like it has to be an outrageous exaggeration, ridiculous.  I assure you it isn't.  Things got so bad that the graduate students came this close to unionizing.  I know one professor whose modus operandi was to grudgingly allow some starving grad student to work for him for 6 months, without pay, with the promise that if his work was good enough, he'd sign him on as a formal (paid) research assistant.  Usually, he'd drop that student and move onto the next one at the end of 6 months.  He was not unique, he was just the most blatant.

After two years in that hellhole, my wife and I escaped back to TAMU.  I'd had enough and went into industry.  She continued on with her Ph.D.  It was night and day.  That department welcomed us both back with open arms (even though I was no longer going to be a student) and gave her every possible tool to grow into a better engineer.

So, yeah, not all universities are made equal.  Some universities take pride in their students.  Some pretty obviously could not care less as long as the research dollars keep rolling in.

[CP5670]

In high-school, we were practically spoon-fed.  At the university level, all of sudden you had to teach yourself a lot of the material you'd need to pass the course.

I wish it was like that. I am a self-learner and they often didn't give you the freedom to do that in most low level courses I did. Although the basic courses I was referring to were in other departments at Maryland, not math.

This is what I like about the Princeton graduate math courses. They are not really courses in the usual sense. They don't cover the qualifying exam topics at all, which you are expected to learn on your own. The professors just talk about their current research instead, and there are no assignments and no grades, with the idea being that you should focus on your thesis work. And the system works great.

The physics, EE and other departments are more traditional. I have sat in on a few of their grad courses but never did them for credit.

The TA load here is fairly light, especially in the applied math sub-track I am in. I would prefer an RA position but the work was quite easy last semester, grading biweekly homeworks for one class with 10 students. I will need to do more this semester, but it should still be reasonable.

As you said, there is a lot of variation in graduate programs on the overall student culture, and it pays to do your research into this when choosing between schools. A lot of students don't think of this when applying and end up worse off for it. (not referring to you, but some other people I know)

[redsniper]

... TAMU ...

!!!
That's where I am. You still here?

[perihelion]

Sadly, no.  We moved to Corpus Christi about 2.5 years and one child ago.  After she graduated, there was that whole, "OH CRAP, NOW I HAVE TO GET A JOB!!!!" thing to contend with.  She got a job offer down here, I wheedled a transfer (and a rather nice raise) out of my company, and we've been down here since then.

I do miss College Station, though.  It combines the best parts of living in a big city and a small town.  Oh yeah, and there's a bastion of intellectual elitism right in the middle of it, though they do their best to disguise it with Aggies.   

[redsniper]

Aye, that's for sure.