[mr.WHO]

Hi guys,
Did anyone noticed that there is a shortage of good space RTS games? I mean Homeworld 2 is a bit old and Sins of a Solar Empire become quite simple and boring after some time.

Recently I noticed something interesting - games that have a SIMPLE Graphic but very deep game mechanics, just like in good old time when 3D graphic and shaders were science fiction.

here are some examples:

Defcon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa4rzo3uSkU

The Space Game:
http://www.joemonster.org/gry/14102/The_Space_Game




I start wondering...what if we could make a web/browser game that would be 2D space RTS with simple/military graphic, where fighter would be nothing more that a triangle and Carrier would be a bunch of few simple shapes like in those games in the links I put. What do you think?


What I would like to see is a simple base building (few structures), simple research options (few ship research and few weapon research), but deep tactical mechanics based on real life (or something like Battlestar Galactica) - so no "lasers of doom", but missiles, point defence, kinetic weapons and Carrier operations (again simplified to just fighters and bombers).

For Example, simplified weapon chart:
Missiles - capship weapons, guided, long range but vunerable to point defence
Nuclear missile - capship, special attack, limited amunition - amunition would be reloaded automaticaly when ship would be close to shipyard, supply ship or supply depot. Good against fighters swarms, group of light ships, or as sniper weapon against heavy ships, PDS vunerable.
Kinetic cannons - medium range, non guided, good against large or stationary targets, against moving targets - effective only at close range.
PDS - anti-missile, anti-bomber weapon, limited effectivenes against fighters.

Fighters - effective against other fighters and bombers.
Bombers - would have a short range anti-ship torpedos,  it would take some amout of bombers to break trough fighter and PDS screen, but they (just like fighters) would be numerous and free. Would be "reloaded" to carriers just like nuclear munition.

Fighters and Bombers would have limited operation time after it (fuel?) run out it would get back to carrier automatically to R & R - to disallow fighters strikes across the map.

What I imagine is "as simple as possible" game that would be easy to make and would have a potential to further development - like mods (BSG   ), more ships, weapons, maybe even formations and multi map (jump nodes connected).


Ships Example:
Corvette - small PDS and kinetic weapons

Frigates:
Escort (PDS), Missile, kinetic    - small ships, every type would have some level of PDS, but Escort would be dedicated, PDS-only ship.
Radar, Supply (resupply nuclear and fighters but have a limited resupply, after that it have to get to Shipyard or resupply base to reload)

Destroyers:
Escort, Missile, kinetic - attack ship, every type would have some level of PDS and light kinetic canons,  Missile type would have a small load of nuclear munition.

Cruisers:
Missile, Battle, Heavy - all ships would have some level of PDS/Missile/Kinetic and some (diffrend for every type) nuclear munition, for example Missile would have more missile and nuclear. Barrle would have less PDS but more kinetic and missile and Heavy would have more PDS and kinetic.

Carriers:
-Escort- small carrier with limited PDS, bigger fighters to bombers ratio (it's for escort, not bomber strikes)
-Normal- normal PDS, limited missile,  50:50 fighters to bombers ratio
-Fleet Carrier- good PDS, limited missile, limited nuclear, large number of fighters/bombers
-Super Carrier- good PDS, bit better missile and nuclear, even more fighters/bombers
-Battlestar/ Battle Carrier- less fighters than fleet carrier, but good armor PDS/missile/kinetic/nuclear  - can go toe-to-toe with cruisers and win (but Cruisers would be cheaper), less raw firepower than Battleships, but more powerfull if you would count bomber contingent.

Battleship:
Battleship - every type of weapon exept fighters / bombers
Dreadnought - bit better armor and more weapons
Titan - ultimate weapon of death, even with it's own hangar (something between escort and normal carrier)


Instalations:
>Near planet/moon
Small Shipyard- from frigate to cruiser and escort carrier.
Large shipyard- everything else
Refinery- refinery would spawn freighter convys that would carry ore from far asteroid mines to refinery for unload.
Research base
Radar Base
missile satellite


>Deep space
Asteroid mine
listening post (radar)
Fighter base
Fort
Resupply base (reload fighters/bombers and nuclear weapons)


Asteroids would have unlimited amount of resources but would be far away from planets so it would be battle for asteroid mines and freighter convoys with frontline between controlled asteroids. Freighters would be spawned for free and would move to the nearest asteroid mine, and every mine(mines would be neutral) would support only limited amount of freighters. To expand the numbers of extracted mines, you would have to upgrade your refinery (would be cheaper, but if someone would destroy it, it would be heavy blow) or build another refinery.

[SpardaSon21]

Have you heard of Battleships Forever?  http://www.wyrdysm.com/games.php

A bit shinier than what you want, but is quite deep and has PD, swarmers, and missiles.  Plus it has beamzorz.  And everyone on HLP likes beamzorz.

[mr.WHO]

Yup, it was fun, but waaayyy to tactical, I mean, you could command only 5 ships and the carrier was useless (stupid drones)

Simple graphic has another advantage - you can have hundred fighters and large fleets throwing missiles at each other and no slow down even of low end PC.

[SpardaSon21]

Well, I'm a graphics whore.  And a beam whore.  So BSF works out great for me.  Some guys even designed and uploaded FS ships onto the database.  The Orion has so many damn sections.

About the whole "reloading" dynamic, that wouldn't work too well on the scale you are talking about.  If you want a hundred ships blowing each other to smithereens with lots of cool explosions, you won't have time to micromanage your ammo and strikecraft supplies.  I would love to see a BSG mod made for something like that though.  Closest I ever got to a true kickass BSG space battle experience was the showcase the devs of Sword of the Stars made.

[BloodEagle]

Be warned that every time BSF is patched, your custom ships are broken.*

*All 50 of them. -.-

[blackhole]

Yup, it was fun, but waaayyy to tactical, I mean, you could command only 5 ships and the carrier was useless (stupid drones)

Simple graphic has another advantage - you can have hundred fighters and large fleets throwing missiles at each other and no slow down even of low end PC.

You can have a hundred fighters and large fleets throwing missiles at each other on a low-end PC even if they have 32-bit graphics. You just can't do it on a web-browser. Games on that kind of a massive scale only work in web-browsers if the computer is relatively powerful due to the inferior methods of rendering.

[Scotty]

Interesting idea.  I would only make a few minor adjustments.  Don't do away with lasers, just the ridiculously OPed ones.  PDS would work actually more effectivly against fighters than you might think.

I would change the missiles to be available to fighters, but as more anti-fighter weapons, stirctly little utility against capships, and very small. 

• Combine missiles and nuclear missiles, they will eventually do about the same thing.  Or call them PD missiles and limit the range.
• Kinetic cannons get to be much faster, easily used against larger targets at range (mostly to prevent the game from becoming a sniper fest)
• Give fighters some decent anti-capship weapon, low ammo, close range.  Make them more useful than gnats, but still less useful than bombers.
• Maybe insert a supply ship, make it easier to go guerilla.
• Change the ship classes up a bit.  RL ships go Corvette, Destroyer, Frigate, Cruiser, Battleship/Dreadnaught.  Carriers are a little out there though.
• Keep some of the variety, but don't go overboard with types of ships.  I'd stick to Light(Escort)/Heavy/Missile for any regular ship, and Light(escort)/Heavy(super) for carriers, with normal ones in there too.
• Have asteroids run out of resources, but have new ones continually pop in on ballistic trajectories to be fought over for the few days they have in view.  Make sure the map doesn't flood with asteroids though.
• Remember not to get too caught up in OMG GIGANTIC FLEET BATTLE!!!! syndrome, and make it too easy for people to get literally thousands of ships.  Also keep the territory down to a few systems plus interstellar space between them.  Make it a bloodbath almost  .

Wow, I'm more of a windbag than I though.

EDIT:  Maybe you can fit lasers in as a form of PDS?

[Pred the Penguin]

BSF sounds interesting, I'll take a look at it when I have time.


I actually love SoaSE, best dose of space RTS I've had.
But I'd love to see a more tactical version on the same scale. o_o

[SpardaSon21]

Yeah, that's my number one complaint with Sins.  It is more about who has more ships and less about any actual tactics.

[Pred the Penguin]

It's actually more of an economic battle. The better you manage your resources and research, the faster your empire grows, the sooner you destroy your enemies. Pirates mix things up sometimes, but you can kill them all pretty easily. =/

[ShadowGorrath]

You can do modifications to DEFCON. I have a Christmas mod for it and there are space mods, etc.