Author Topic: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?  (Read 1990 times)

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Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
I frequently go after a retreating enemy, and his wingmate covers him. I have to break off an attack to kill him first, because I'm getting shot in the back. Of course, the first one turns around and finishes ME off seconds later.  :mad: Yet, I never have a wingmate take someone off my tail, even after 30+ seconds, after I command them to cover me. I frequently save them, though.

I also command all fighters to cover a single capital ship. I single handedly take on a whole group of 4 fighters (it's doable with a Erenyes or something tough), figuring that my 7 wingmates could then easily finish off 4 bombers.

You know what happens next.  :p

I suspect the wingmates use a different, weaker AI than enemy ships. They can't follow very simple orders like covering me or a capital ship; they don't even use afterburners to keep up with me. They're cannon fodder at best. Yet, enemy fighters are brilliant at both covering their capitals and in dogfighting tactics, and they most certainly do know when to hit the burners.

Are there any campaigns that have high quality AI for wingmen? I would prefer this, because I think I have more skill at commanding wings than doing everything myself. Or better yet, a campaign that switches the wingmate AI with enemy AI, just so I can see things from the other perspective.  :p

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
Blue Planet relies heavily on wingman command.

However, you're wrong. The wingmen and enemies use the same AI. In some missions, however, the AI level of the wingmen may be set lower than those of the enemies.

 
Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
You're fast.  :) I take it the difficulty slider affects the enemy AI (I'm used to "medium"), and the default for wingmates is "easy". It would be interesting to have two difficulty sliders, so I could specify both enemy and friendly skill.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
The basic AI level of the other ships in the game is determined by the mission designer. The general difficulty level acts as a sort of multiplier (i.e., the lowest rated AI level on very easy is about as intelligent as a brick. The highest rated one on Insane will kick all sorts of ass.).
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
You're fast.  :) I take it the difficulty slider affects the enemy AI (I'm used to "medium"), and the default for wingmates is "easy". It would be interesting to have two difficulty sliders, so I could specify both enemy and friendly skill.

As The_E said, this is wrong. There is no independent slider for wingmen and enemy AI.

All ships are assigned an AI class ranging from Lieutenant up to General. This class is exactly the same no matter what team the ship is on.

Each AI class has its own table with various values, specifying turn speed, evasion frequency, firing rate, and so on, that vary by difficulty. A Lieutenant AI will be faster and more aggressive on Insane than on Very Easy. So will a General AI. On any given difficulty level, however, the General AI will be better than a Lieutenant. A Lieutenant on Insane might be comparable to a General on Easy.

Again, team does not matter. Your wingmen use the same AI as the enemy.

Difficulty also affects the 'invisible shield' the player is given. On Medium, you're only taking about half damage from all enemy fire, and only a limited number of enemies and turrets are allowed to attack you at one time. Only on Insane is this restriction lifted. Insane is, in fact, not the 'hard' setting, it is simply the 'no cheats' setting.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
Shivan AI in the main campaign is usually set on Major rather than the default Captain. This is because most Shivan craft are manifestly crappy and AI class in part determines the percentage of the capablities of the craft that is actually being used. 65% of crappy is much worse than 65% of good, so Shivans get a bit of a boost to help the playing field be evenish. I haven't checked friendly AI.

On Insane most AI classes normalize at 100% of their craft's capablities. The lowest one is at about 70% or so. The rest are 100%. General goes slightly over, IIRC.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
This gives rise to the interesting fact that, canonically, Shivan pilots are generally better than Terran ones.  ;7

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
I always seem to have the feeling that something with the A.I. isn't right, and I'm always convinced of it, playing INFA, I've gone through every mission losing at least 65% of my squadron strength within the first attack. It could be a wing of Hercs, a wing of Antaeus (Not bothering with plural), and a wing of Enceladus (Again, not bothering with plural), fitted with whatever most powerful weapon they can fit, and a wing of Angels with Avengers will obliterate nine out of the 12 fighters before going down. And it happens every. Single. Mission. It's just Medium too.
Then again, it was the exact opposite on Sol: A History. :P

 

Offline colecampbell666

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
Make sure that you give the right orders to your wingmen, they usually go down like cheap hookers if they're protecting something and there are fighters on them as well.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
This gives rise to the interesting fact that, canonically, Shivan pilots are generally better than Terran ones.  ;7

I'm not actually sure of that. The Blue Lions missions typically have Major Shivans and General-level wingmen.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
Yeah, but those are killer elite wingmen and who-knows-what Shivans.

 

Offline CP5670

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
The wingmen are effective as long as you are aware of their limitations. On medium or hard difficulty, they usually perform better with the engage enemy order than anything else. Cover or attack orders mean that they only attack what they're told to and ignore anything that attacks them, and they largely don't use their afterburners either.

On insane, it's a good idea to have everyone attack individual enemy fighters and concentrate their fire, but you have to make sure you keep assigning them new targets. The enemy fighters shoot primaries much more rapidly on insane, but so do your wingmen.

Some campaigns have the wingmen cheat and become invulnerable, so they don't die in the first few minutes. It is also common for them to have the General AI setting.

  

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: Is wingmate AI intetionally nerfed? Any campaigns do it differently?
The AI can be very effective if you use them properly. In BP's Forced Entry (here we go again), if you get them to cover the friendly warships, they do a superb job, even on Very Easy. All you have to do is fly about and blow up beam turrets.
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