Author Topic: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)  (Read 8818 times)

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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
K, since nobody has reported any problems, I've committed this to trunk.  It'll be in recent builds from 12/30 onward.

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
Did you include the font size correction that was part of my patch in the first post?
Without it the fiction viewer will cut off the text if a different font than font01 is used.

I didn't have time to test your build yet.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
The font size correction was a brutal hack caused by initializing the viewer with FONT1 and then switching to a different font later on.  Initializing it with the proper font at the beginning, like I did, should remove the need for that hack.

And please test the build, it's been available for a week already.  I somehow had the impression that this feature was urgently needed. :rolleyes:

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
It is, but sorry for not testing code stuff over christmas. We have private lives you know.

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
I can't get this to work.

The fiction viewer doesn't see to use the font. When I write font04.vf in the file nothing happens at all, if I write font04 it changes the font with in the viewer but renders the original font, resulting in it drawing over the scroll bar.

Also I see no option in FRED to actually select the fiction or the font?

How exactly do I need to write this? I added the fonts to that new table...

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
It is, but sorry for not testing code stuff over christmas. We have private lives you know.
That's ironic, because for many months the Saga team had been talking about the importance of getting these features by the end of the year.

Plus, it was only during the free time provided by Christmas break that I was able to add this.


I can't get this to work.
Can you attach your font04?

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
The file should be ok. It's from Volition, and it works when I replace font01 with it.

[attachment deleted by admin]

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
Okay, it turns out I missed a spot where the font was reset to FONT1.  This should now work:
http://fs2source.warpcore.org/exes/latest/font-test.zip

Incidentally, what do you mean this font04 is "from Volition"?  Did you find it in a demo somewhere?

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
I don't remember where I got it from. I think there was a download of a different version of the fonttool somewhere that was part of a different volition game but basically worked the same. I think the file came with that one...
All I remember is that I didn't make it and it came as part of something by Volition.

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
Goober: I'm working on a patch to make Fonts an SCP_vector - might as well do it while it's fresh in your head.
There is some damn, damn ugly code in sections of the font system.
Not to mention that for some reason a lot of the functions refuse to take a const char* (can we PLEASE start using that in new functions. It makes our lives a little easier.)
STRONGTEA. Why can't the x86 be sane?

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
The code still doesn't work.
now the font is used but, as expected, you didn't read what I said about the font size fix. The text is cut off because the fiction viewer uses the wrong font size to calculate how long the text is for the scroll bar.

That size information is hardcoded and I let the code re-compute it, depending on the font that's used.

My code may have been a hack, but at least it worked... maybe think about that before assulting me again for doing "brutal hacks" and start testing your own code before critisizing us for not testing stuff over christmas when you knew some of us weren't even at home.

I think it's very questionable to critisize other coders in thread about not keeping commit discipline and not testing their code while delivering only buggy stuff yourself. There hasn't been a single feature or bugfix you've implemented for Saga that worked in the first or even second try.

PS: If you wanna give me that stupid "Forum Monkey" or whatever that was for this again, feel free to. But maybe stop critisizing us until you've cleaned up your own backyard.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 03:47:19 pm by KeldorKatarn »

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
The code still doesn't work.
now the font is used but, as expected, you didn't read what I said about the font size fix. The text is cut off because the fiction viewer uses the wrong font size to calculate how long the text is for the scroll bar.

That size information is hardcoded and I let the code re-compute it, depending on the font that's used.
Either you're using an out-of-date build or you've got some leftover code interfering with your own build.  Look at the attached screenshot: the story quite clearly appears within the text boundaries and uses the correct font.

EDIT: If you mean scrolling up and down, as opposed to fitting within the text window, then you have a point.  I'll look into that.

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My code may have been a hack, but at least it worked... maybe think about that before assulting me again for doing "brutal hacks" and start testing your own code before critisizing us for not testing stuff over christmas when you knew some of us weren't even at home.
"Brutal hacks" are just that: hacks that may do the job but are ugly, clumsy, and interfere with some other aspect of the code.  You really need to get past your simplistic view of "work" -- it may do what you want it to do, but you're trading a large long-term penalty for a small short-term gain.  This, incidentally, is why you don't have SVN commit access: coders with your style of coding nearly killed the SCP before taylor came along.  I have no intent of repeating that disaster.

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I think it's very questionable to critisize other coders in thread about not keeping commit discipline and not testing their code while delivering only buggy stuff yourself. There hasn't been a single feature or bugfix you've implemented for Saga that worked in the first or even second try.
Which is why I didn't commit the code to trunk until you made a post implying that you had tested it.  Rarely does stuff work on the first try; if you think it does, you're probably missing something important.

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PS: If you wanna give me that stupid "Forum Monkey" or whatever that was for this again, feel free to. But maybe stop critisizing us until you've cleaned up your own backyard.
I no longer care.  You've repeatedly shown contempt and extreme disrespect toward all members of the SCP.  You attack our members, criticize our skills, dismiss our concerns, and trample all over our code.  I will no longer allow any feature patch from you to be added to FSO, with or without modification.  Future requests for features or bugfixes will have to come from Tolwyn, Starman, or one of the WCS team members whom I respect (which, come to think of it, is everyone aside from you).  You have thrown away every chance we gave you and I am out of patience.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 04:58:36 pm by Goober5000 »

 

Offline Zacam

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
The following is a general commentary post. I'm not attempting to call out any one specifically on anything, even though specific instances are related in the dialogue.

12/24/09 @ 00:45:25
   Builds posted with some usage instructions.

Generalized commentary about A: How to use it and B: How it was implemented.

12/27/09 @ 17:49:35
   Inquiry as to use of the font tool to make vf fonts from original coder.

12/29/09 @ 23:41:27
   Committed to Trunk as 5751. 5752 is further committed to adjust it's implementation.
   Later commit 5755, UI Window fix on Font code committed.

12/30/09 @ 03:05:03
   General inquiry as to font size correction that original coder experienced.
   Admission that testing by original coder not yet done.

@ 09:21:09
   Original coders work around for sizing issue called out as a brutal hack.
   Yet, sizing issues present in the committed code (potentially leading to the aforementioned 5755 commit)

Conversation devolves from there, with original coder essentially being told that they will no longer in any way ever be listened to, supposedly inferring the entire SCP team will go along with this, despite of it being a community project.

Now, normally, we get feature requests where nobody even thinks about what they are asking for, outside of some vaguely defined notion as to what it will entail, maybe. There are by and large plenty of requests that do have a lot of thought put in to them first as well, just so nobody assumes that I'm negatively making generalizations.

But in this case, we got actual code on a feature that a project wanted to see implemented for their release. Now, as to how _well_ that code was written is not my place to say, I'm still learning. And what mistakes I have made have been in general pointed out to me in a much better fashion than they have been pointed out here.

If what you get from somebody constantly requires reworking, in what fashion has it been pointed out that it still needs to be worked on? It's one thing to say "Review of the code shows that it is usable and the idea itself has a significant merit, but for the purposes of allowing the best forward compatibility with the code base, could you look at this example of the changed code and see if that still does what you are intending?". I mean, if I got a response like that, I'd be pretty happy that my idea had enough merit that somebody was willing to take the time to go over it and share with me a way to make it (and myself) better. That's the professional thing to do.

Unfortunately, what we have here instead is the Personal aspect response of "this is ugly, brutal and a hack, in spite of being an idea of merit, so I'm going to do it my way rather than yours and disregard what you have to say about what you intended because you obviously have it all wrong anyway."

Just as unfortunately, the responses as given to these statements begin to slip from being technical and to the point into also slipping into the more personal response area. Potentially understandable as most people will tend to respond to personal statements in a personal fashion.

Now, I realize there is a lot of potential history here that I am not privy to. Nor do I want to be. But any idea of merit, regardless of source, should have just as much of an equal unbiased ability for consideration and inclusion to the code base as any other.

Or if it's not to be included or considered in the code base it should be for purely professional and technical reasons only, rather than personal, and those reasons should be clearly and concisely laid out for the original coder to contemplate and provide a means by which to either meet the challenge and revise the code or propose a solution to collaborate on. Or at the very least have some idea as to what prerequisites need to be accomplished first before it can happen that they could maybe then lend assistance on.

The strength of a community is not how easily everybody can see eye to eye with each other, but in how well it can continue to operate EVEN WHEN people don't see eye to eye. I think we manage a pretty good degree of collaboration, even in spite of personal interaction issues that continually creep into what should be purely technical aspects and future development considerations.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
Okay, I withdraw half of the "brutal hack" comment.  It doesn't apply to the recalculation of the number of text lines, which Keldor actually did in a rather elegant way, even if the implementation had some side effects.  I've modified that part and committed it to trunk, and now the fiction scrolls properly.

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
We'll test it with the first nightly build that has this included.

Oh and Goober... I didn't attack the SCP... I attacked YOU. Since indidently the cooperation between Saga (or me) and the SCP has been very good in the past weeks and months, except whenever you get involved. So stop acting like you're leading a SCP-battle against me. I work well with the rest of SCP and I don't see how you have the right to accuse me any attack on you is automatically against the entire team.
You've been the only one constantly attacking me and citisizing code I've took the time to suggest in the lowest possible manner instead of looking at it, actually reading it and giving constuctive critisism or taking it and putting it into trunk,
You've been the only coder which constantly broke Saga dependent stuff or presented implementations we had to test and correct for several times before it finally worked.

So I can give that compliment right back. I resepct anyone in the SCP except you. Not because of your attitude towards me but because you rarely ever took any of our code examples seiously, critisized stuff without even looking at it (which this case proves again) and delivering buggy stuff yourself while critisizing other SCP people for not testing their code.

I've never ticked off at you without any reason. Back in the days of dynamic messaging, my code was dismissed because I used std::vectors... that wasn't SCP code style I was told.
Months later, when SCP started using vectors themselves, I was finally told the real reason was actually the need to watch memory usage.
So I said.."So? Just use custom allocators".. and guess what soeone else in the SCP implemented some time later.. did I ever get any positive response for suggesting a working solution that actually was used later? Instead I had to wait over a year for a feature to be implemented nearly 1:1 the way I originally suggested it.

And that's the way it always is whenever you get involved so maybe my anti-sympathy for you has a reason.

I don't say my code is always better or perfect, but I expect it to be at least looked at and read and commented on in a professional fashion. Especially since we are one of the very few teams which 90% of the time offer their own code for stuff we request.

So thanks for finally implementing this, we'll test the new version as soon as possible, and maybe in the future we'll (or I'll) get a nicer answer to a request or suggestion. it works with the rest of SCP so it should work with you as well.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2010, 12:06:35 pm by KeldorKatarn »

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
Oh and Goober... I didn't attack the SCP... I attacked YOU. Since indidently the cooperation between Saga (or me) and the SCP has been very good in the past weeks and months, except whenever you get involved. So stop acting like you're leading a SCP-battle against me. I work well with the rest of SCP and I don't see how you have the right to accuse me any attack on you is automatically against the entire team.
You're not looking past me to the underlying requirements of the code base.  If I have to be the bearer of bad news it's not because I have a vendetta against you, it's because I have to keep an eye on the codebase.  For instance, everybody on Mantis seemed to be pretty happy about the cutscene bar fix, but that's because very few people are familiar with the problems it would cause.

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You've been the only one constantly attacking me and citisizing code I've took the time to suggest in the lowest possible manner instead of looking at it, actually reading it and giving constuctive critisism or taking it and putting it into trunk.
I am simply not going to rubber stamp any patch you (or anyone else) submits; it needs to be vetted.  (And it doesn't have to be vetted by me; it could be vetted by any coder familiar with the issues.)

I have given you constructive criticism in the past but you took such offense that I stopped doing it.

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You've been the only coder which constantly broke Saga dependent stuff or presented implementations we had to test and correct for several times before it finally worked.
I have to keep in mind the concerns of other mods.  FSO cannot simply flip a switch and turn into the WCS engine; if you want to do that then you might as well fork the codebase and do your own development.  If you want to play with the same EXE as other mods, you need to bend a little.  Any features you request need to be future proof and need to be usable by other mods in different circumstances.

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So I can give that compliment right back. I resepct anyone in the SCP except you.
In that case I'm happy you respect Taylor, because he's the one who raised many of the concerns in the first place - particularly the cutscene bar issue.

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Not because of your attitude towards me but because you rarely ever took any of our code examples seiously, critisized stuff without even looking at it (which this case proves again) and delivering buggy stuff yourself while critisizing other SCP people for not testing their code.
If by "buggy" you mean "not working exactly the way WCS wants" then see the "play nicely with others" requirement above.  As for knee-jerk criticism, I'm sorry but it's sort of a habit I've gotten into when dealing with your suggestions.

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Back in the days of dynamic messaging, my code was dismissed because I used std::vectors... that wasn't SCP code style I was told.
And it wasn't.  Originally FSO was almost pure C and we tried to keep it that way.  But people started adding more and more C++ stuff (like std::vector) and eventually the strategy shifted.

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Months later, when SCP started using vectors themselves, I was finally told the real reason was actually the need to watch memory usage.
So I said.."So? Just use custom allocators".. and guess what soeone else in the SCP implemented some time later.. did I ever get any positive response for suggesting a working solution that actually was used later? Instead I had to wait over a year for a feature to be implemented nearly 1:1 the way I originally suggested it.
In that case I apologize, but I honestly don't remember you ever suggesting custom allocators.

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I don't say my code is always better or perfect, but I expect it to be at least looked at and read and commented on in a professional fashion.
Then I'll try to avoid the knee-jerk criticism and reset the "diplomatic counter".  In return I would appreciate it if you wouldn't keep your temper on a hair trigger.  Oh, and see above about rubber-stamping.

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Especially since we are one of the very few teams which 90% of the time offer their own code for stuff we request.
A very good point, and we appreciate this.

 
Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
As a final remark (the build seems to work btw.), is it planned to include setting fiction file and font in FRED? Right now it still can only be editted by hand, as far as I know.
We don't really need FRED support but I'm sure now that everything works other mods will want to use the fiction viewer as well.

From what I know several people don't even know about the feature because it isn't in FRED.

  

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Feature Request: 4th font (especially for fiction viewer)
Yes, a FRED dialog is planned.  I haven't gotten around to it yet.