[WMCoolmon]

Think of a stream...it's much easier to go in the direction the water-or time- is traveling, and it takes a lot more energy to go against the current.  So the problem might be power requirements, as they would be VERY high for traveling through time.

[icespeed]

energy requirements are high enough for travelling through subspace; but snce there's non-linear time in subspace, technically, it doesn't need energy to travel through time. subspace automatically dumps you out in a different time... doesn't it?

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by LtNarol
bah, quantum physics isnt my field.  I'll just say what Mark told me:  Subspace is kinda like a the chocolate pudding in a chocolate-vanella pudding bowl (real-space is the vanella part and the bowl would be the universe).  Traveling through a wormhole should be traveling through subspace, as wormholes (in theory at least) are tunnels in subspace.  The ST warp travel thing is based off the idea that speeds are different in subspace and that by riding half way between realspace and subspace, you can go faster than the speed of light (all theoretical and mostly BS).  On the other hand, if a ship could survive traveling through subspace, you can (theoretically once again) get from one place in the universe to another faster than light would.  You would not actually travel faster than light, but you would still get there sooner (based of the theory that the subspace plain distorts speed).

As you probably figured out already, everything we know about subspace, including the possiblity that it even exists, is completely theoretical.  We dont even know if wormholes exist.

Food... I can understand food!!!
No... wait... What if we're out of vanilla???

[NeoHunter]

I just had an idea from all those Star Trek movies. Instead of attaching a subspace or hyperdrive to the ships, why not build warp gates? Well, I don't really know what to call them but my idea is that since it is highly dangerous for humans to tranvel faster than light, why not just "teleport" the various molecules from one gate to the destination gate? You know...like how those Star Trek guys always beam up and down?

There are dangers to thise idea too. What if the molecules fail to reach the destination gate? What if the molecules are not re-assembled correctly? What if the gate malfunctions halfway?

[icespeed]

"I just had an idea from all those Star Trek movies. Instead of attaching a subspace or hyperdrive to the ships, why not build warp gates? Well, I don't really know what to call them but my idea is that since it is highly dangerous for humans to tranvel faster than light, why not just "teleport" the various molecules from one gate to the destination gate? You know...like how those Star Trek guys always beam up and down?

There are dangers to thise idea too. What if the molecules fail to reach the destination gate? What if the molecules are not re-assembled correctly? What if the gate malfunctions halfway?"
NeoHunter

Aren't those warp gates like another form of FTL travel? cause how would you teleport the molecules around? shove them in another dimension and pull them back in a different spot... which is essentially subspace stuff...

[Ace]

the laws of physics are determined on a molecular level, then all the nice subspace particles would most likely begin interacting with the subspace drive and anything attatched to it, probably annihilating it in the process.

an0n said this earlier in the thread. The FS subspace drives actually *do* operate on this principle. The blue shimmering vortex we all know and love is from the annihilation of particles, and a velocity over 42 m/s needs to be reached or you'll be fried.

Similarly, the tunnel is formed from realspace "flowing through" and annihilating with the "edges." Killjoy ages ago wrote a more technical sounding explanation saying the same thing, and everything [V] has said stays pretty true to his idea since well I think they let him do the grunt work on "explaining" subspace. (despite explaining the annihilation effects and tunnel, it still doesn't say much of what subspace is)

[mikhael]

Originally posted by CP5670
I think that the hyperspace theory might have some credit to it as it would properly explain the quantum entanglement phenomenon; basically if it was possible to leave the fourth dimension and exist in only three, velocity as a function of time would be meaningless (effectively eliminating the c limit) and all actions would take place simultaneously.

'Time' as a concept is nothing more than the observerable consequence of the the increase of entropy. Thermodynamics always wins. Further, as an axis of movement, it only goes in one direction, starting at the planck time and moving on from there in planck lengths. It doesn't even have a Zero point. Tau is as inescapable as the speed of light, it just isn't as constant.

Generally, our universe is called a "3+1" space. Tau is seperated from the more prosaic X, Y and Z axes because it works differently. I strongly suspect that you cannot remove tau from any dimensional model of the universe.  You could, for example, find a dimensional model that drops a dimension, but you would find that you had a "2+1" space. Similarly, all hyperspace (proper definition: space with more four or more physical dimensions) models that are mathematically viable can always be represented as "N+1" spaces. Tau is always in there because entropy is always in there.

This isn't as coherent as I'd like, but it will do for now.

Also, that site venom posted has a bunch of useful information on this topic.
This guy was cool; he was one of the two creators of my favorite subject in math.

On the subject of the calculus, I recommend David Berlinksi's 'A Tour of the Calculus'. Brilliant, though perhaps a bit basic for you, CP. For the rest of us, however, its a good primer and is just a damned fun read.

[KillMeNow]

the reason negative mass is needed is to prevent the space time bubble, wormhole, wave all the planned theroys is to generate an anti gravitation ring around the ship or at the enterance to the wormhole to prevent its collapse - there might be more to it than that but i just read the reports availble on the internet and they dohnt mention anything other than that when tis taken down toa basic level so its the genuine antigravity a repulses force based on gravity that is the main requirement - but as of yet we have no way to do that negative mass would be the obvious solution - but we dont have that either yet but it is theorteically possible

[Zeronet]

Isnt subspace below realspace?

[an0n]

It's in the same dimension as realspace whereas Hyperspace is generally some kind of extra dimensional place.

[LtNarol]

Originally posted by NeoHunter
I just had an idea from all those Star Trek movies. Instead of attaching a subspace or hyperdrive to the ships, why not build warp gates? Well, I don't really know what to call them but my idea is that since it is highly dangerous for humans to tranvel faster than light, why not just "teleport" the various molecules from one gate to the destination gate? You know...like how those Star Trek guys always beam up and down?

There are dangers to thise idea too. What if the molecules fail to reach the destination gate? What if the molecules are not re-assembled correctly? What if the gate malfunctions halfway?

ST goes with the idea of converting energy into matter when it does its teleportation thingy (same for its replicators).  The idea is that an object (or person) is disassembled on the molecular level turning it (he/she) into pure energy.  That energy is then used to recreate that object (or person) molecule by molecule somewhere else.  As for replicators, they just straight out convert from energy to matter using pre-establised forumlas.

[an0n]

Transporters work by binding normal matter to an energy stream and mixing in a little bit of subspace to get through ceilings and things.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by KillMeNow
...tis taken down toa basic level so its the genuine antigravity a repulses force based on gravity that is the main requirement - but as of yet we have no way to do that negative mass would be the obvious solution - but we dont have that either yet but it is theorteically possible

I do not think that negative mass/energy groupings generate negative gravitation. Gravity in our present--admittedly limited--understanding, is always attractive. Even when various symmetries are flipped, gravitation remains the same.

Whereas the masses necessary for things like the Alcubierre Warp are used for generating massive alterations to the surrounding spacetime matrix, it has nothing to do with gravity. In this case, the mass isn't being used to generate gravity-like space distortions, such as those found around stellar objects and collapsars. Instead, the mass is being used to generate two very specific effects: early post-Big-Bang expanionism (wherein the universe expanded faster than lightspeed) and late pre-Big-Crunch collapse (when the universe would start to contract faster than lightspeed).

In the case of Alcubierre and some wormhole theories, the negative mass is used to debit the universe in a way, thus allowing physics to reassert the balance by normal rules. This is roughly, but not quite, analogous to blackhole evaporation on a large scale or the Casimir effect on a small one. When the artificially induced gradient (be it collapse or expansion), the universe must assert certain conditions such that the balance remains unchanged (cf. difference between special and general relativity).

[CP5670]

'Time' as a concept is nothing more than the observerable consequence of the the increase of entropy. Thermodynamics always wins. Further, as an axis of movement, it only goes in one direction, starting at the planck time and moving on from there in planck lengths. It doesn't even have a Zero point. Tau is as inescapable as the speed of light, it just isn't as constant.

Generally, our universe is called a "3+1" space. Tau is seperated from the more prosaic X, Y and Z axes because it works differently. I strongly suspect that you cannot remove tau from any dimensional model of the universe. You could, for example, find a dimensional model that drops a dimension, but you would find that you had a "2+1" space. Similarly, all hyperspace (proper definition: space with more four or more physical dimensions) models that are mathematically viable can always be represented as "N+1" spaces. Tau is always in there because entropy is always in there.

Ah I see, but why is time referred to as a fourth dimension then? From what you said, it doesn't really seem like a real dimension at all, but rather a physical limit like c, except that it varies with gravity fields. I think that the currently accepted theory says that the value of t at a gravitational singularity is always equal to ¥, which would leave a hole in space and therefore get rid of the time limit at that point.

On an unrelated note, does the second thermodynamics law (the entropy law) imply that at some point in time everything in the universe will turn into heat energy with uniform distribution?

On the subject of the calculus, I recommend David Berlinksi's 'A Tour of the Calculus'. Brilliant, though perhaps a bit basic for you, CP. For the rest of us, however, its a good primer and is just a damned fun read.

You know, I think I have actually that title and have skimmed through it a few times. My dad collects various math and science books from second-hand bookstores, so I have a bunch of these types of books and older textbooks by now.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by CP5670


Ah I see, but why is time referred to as a fourth dimension then? From what you said, it doesn't really seem like a real dimension at all, but rather a physical limit like c, except that it varies with gravity fields. I think that the currently accepted theory says that the value of t at a gravitational singularity is always equal to ¥, which would leave a hole in space and therefore get rid of the time limit at that point.

Tau is a dimension because it forms a metric that can be used to localise any phenomenon in a regular geometric space. It is, in short, a fourth coordinate. Two events in the life of a moving particle can be localised by spatial and temporal coordinates, IE: Event A took place HERE at THIS time and event B took place THERE at THAT time. Relationships, both physical and mathematical, can be deduced from the numbers involved.

Mapping mathematical logic onto the real world is the entire purpose of the calculus. In that context, all functions, in all forms, relate change over time and change over space. What is the classic y=mx+b linear function, if not a relation of linear movement over time?

On a more physical note, tau only has its bottom limit at the planck time because of simple exclusion. Anything BEFORE the planck time is both unobservable and unable to have any effect on anything AFTER the plank time. Before the planck time, time could have run in a loop, taking 180 degree turns on every loop, but it doesn't matter. There is a disconnect.

On an unrelated note, does the second thermodynamics law (the entropy law) imply that at some point in time everything in the universe will turn into heat energy with uniform distribution?
 

'Entropy increases' does pretty much imply a heat death, at which a local variation of only a fraction of a Kelvin difference is observable between any two arbitrary regions of space. This enforces a condition of near perfect uniformity. Of course, that assumes an open- or flat-model universe. A closed universe, naturally, begins to contract and the heat death is reversed. Rather than an eternal chill, the whole thing shrinks until all mass/energy exists as superfluid plasma.

[Corsair]

Originally posted by Stunaep
whew, at last a sentence i can understand!!!
Wowee!

I agree though. You guys talk in riddles sometimes. Speak regular normal English so that we can all understand please!

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by Corsair


I agree though. You guys talk in riddles sometimes. Speak regular normal English so that we can all understand please!

ST talk: We've got a quantom induced, negative wave form, its breaking through the tacyhon field.

Laymens terms: A pipes burst, waters everywhere.

[Nico]

Originally posted by mikhael


Oh, I hate to hurt you like this, Venom, but its Miguel Alcubierre-Moya, and he's Mexican by birth.

Alcubierre's effect is not space folding. It is the induction of a controlled compressive effect on the leading edge coupled with a expansive effect on the trailing edge of the field. This is not 'space-folding' so much as it is a local-slope induction.

bah, I know, but some didn't

wel, to me, that sounds much more like space folding than anything else. Just imagine what happens. actually, they  increase mass in front of the ship so much that... rah, too long to say again, anyway, what's far away from you is brought close w/o you even moving, so that's space folding for me