[High Max]

 

[The E]

Again, this would be a feature you'd enable or disable on the Launcher. If you wouldn't want it on, you wouldn't turn it on. The reason this probably won't be implemented is that most people would never use it...

Frankly, I don't care to see it done, either. But I do understand NeoKnight's concerns - heck, I though StarCraft was pretty filthy in terms of language when I was younger... Once more, the author of the campaign should make a part to write a good story, and a good story doesn't need to be profane. And if it does use profanity, it should be tasteful.

**** that. The point of using profanity is that it isn't bloody appropriate, and surely NOT tasteful. Besides, as is proven every Talk like a Pirate day, Word filters are pretty easy to circumvent, once you know how they work. And I sure as hell would use any and all methods to do so, just to piss people off who think that "inappropriate language" is something someone needs to be protected from.

[Thaeris]

 

Perhaps I should have said "tact" instead of "tasteful."

And anyway, this wouldn't be a forced feature; this is for folks (as in "not you") who care about their younger sibling or some other factor in that manner. Again, I don't know how you'd do it, I don't know if it would slow FSO down as a whole or only when it's running (if at all), and I don't have any idea why you're bashing this when said fellow has ligitimate concerns!!! 

That you're "throwing down" the concerns of NeoKnight is what bothers me. Sure, I think a filter is silly because I don't need it or want it. However, that doesn't invalidate it for everyone.

[The E]

Because I don't see his concerns as legitimate. And because I am evil and mean and want to do my part in helping our children learn the real language that is spoken out there. As the saying goes, if you're under 16 and haven't heard the work "****" before, you have now.

[General Battuta]

I think the fact of it is that we're not here to force our value systems upon other people. If NeoKnight wants to make the choice to screen out profanity, I don't blame him.

I was raised in a zero-profanity household, and I now swear like a sailor. Missions I FRED tend to be a bit on the blasphemous side. I feel pretty okay with all of it.

I have no idea if an SCP option would be practical. But a little 'profanity filter' box, even if it didn't work well, wouldn't hurt anybody, and might help a few.

[NeoKnight]

Because I don't see his concerns as legitimate. And because I am evil and mean and want to do my part in helping our children learn the real language that is spoken out there. As the saying goes, if you're under 16 and haven't heard the work "****" before, you have now.

E, idealists are strange people you might never understand. But we do exist. And I think that even idealists should be able to play an awesome game like FreeSpace without being offended by uncalled for swearing. It just seems a shame that some people will miss the wondrous joys of FS because their own personal moral values are incompatible with the content found in the game. And by this I don't mean the retail campaign as much as I do, say, Transcend for example. If there were some kind of censoring function in FSO then I think the game would be open to a much larger audience. Whether the aforementioned function is an integrated feature designed by the SCP team or the results of text edits of individual campaigns by a certain person (like me), I think it could go a long way. After all, we won't be around HLP forever. We gotta think of the "next generation," so to speak, and pass things on. And my opinion is that the more people we can pass the FreeSpace legacy on to, the better.

And even if you don't see my concerns as legitimate, at least try to understand them. As Spock so gracefully put it, "I understand, but that does not mean I approve." I think there's a lot to be learned form that philosophy.


 

[The E]

You see, my problem here is that I can't understand it. The underlying assumption, that some words are more harmful than others, and that hearing them will somehow make life worse for the listener/reader, is something I just can't wrap my head around.

Same goes for the desire to "open up" content for minors that wasn't intended for them in the first place (or that was created without special consideration for them).

[Dragon]

I also don't understand why moral guardians are so worried about a few words, but I know that people like that exist and there's nothing to do about it.
There may be a point in doing this in case we want a child not to know words before knowing and caring about consequences of using them, but when said child goes to school, he or she will learn them anyway. If a swear word isn't overused (fortunately build-ins you hear all over the time don't feature anything offensive), there won't be a significant problem if a child hears it once or twice (it may even not be remembered, proivded it's not included in a memorable moment).

NeoKnight: If you consider working on it worth of your time, go ahead.
I'm not saying that I'm opposed to implementing censoring, but I'm completely not interested in it.
If you can find a coder who will implement it, you may consider adding this function, but I hope this won't distract people from other, more important things.
You can replace swear words in mission files if you want, but this will be played only by a handfull of people.
You're pretty much on your own with this, though we can provide tech support in case anything went wrong.

[General Battuta]

If NeoKnight wants to clean up campaigns for the young ones, it's not our place to instruct him otherwise. I think we should just let that topic be.

For the moment, NeoKnight, it's probably not going to be considered a priority, but you can feel absolutely free to do so yourself.

[TopAce]

I think isolating a child from the "real" world does more harm to him than showing intermittent signs of it over time. As Dragon said, hearing or reading swear words in limited quantities does no harm. FreeSpace campaigns don't use swearing all that often. Realistically speaking, a child will definitely hear less crude language while playing FreeSpace than while waiting in some waiting room (at a station, at the doctor, etc) and overhear some conversation.

[NeoKnight]

You see, my problem here is that I can't understand it. The underlying assumption, that some words are more harmful than others, and that hearing them will somehow make life worse for the listener/reader, is something I just can't wrap my head around.

The underlying assumption is that when certain words are used outside of their proper context (if they even have one), they can transfer offensive meanings. A mild example would be "d*mn it", which in its strictest sense is a verb meaning to condemn something, or bring d*mnation upon it. Now that may seem harmless from a secular viewpoint, but from the perspective of someone with even a modest religious background, it can take on a whole new meaning.

Now I'm aware that these kinds of thoughts don't cross the mind of an average person when they use such an expletive. Using it is probably more of a reflex than anything else. But to others who take the words seriously and in their literal meaning, it can be very violative. And thus we try to avoid them.   

Same goes for the desire to "open up" content for minors that wasn't intended for them in the first place (or that was created without special consideration for them).

My understanding was that FreeSpace, despite the mild violence and language, was aimed for all audiences (including minors). Hence the E rating the game received. I was hoping that a lot of the fan-made campaigns would have similar aims, and I haven't been entirely disappointed. Cardinal Spear and The Procyon Insurgency both seem like decent campaigns that are devoid of anything really objectionable. Needless to say, they will probably be getting much use on my brother's computer. 

If NeoKnight wants to clean up campaigns for the young ones, it's not our place to instruct him otherwise. I think we should just let that topic be.

For the moment, NeoKnight, it's probably not going to be considered a priority, but you can feel absolutely free to do so yourself.

So weighing the entire situation as a cost-benefit scenario, it seems that constructing an integrated censoring feature isn't in the best interest of this community. I imagine that only a very limited number of people would use it, and there are many other projects that could be worked on instead and that everyone would probably appreciate. I understand that so I don't think I'll bring up the subject on the SCP Board. However, I might look into doing some modifications on a campaign-by-campaign basis to make them as decent as possible. And maybe someone besides me and my brother will actually play them.

You're pretty much on your own with this, though we can provide tech support in case anything went wrong.

Thanks, I may need to take you up on that offer.

[General Battuta]

I don't think there are many campaigns that deploy much obscenity (compared to, say, a Tarantino movie), but we're not here to dictate child-rearing (or brother-protecting) standards to NeoKnight.

Swearing actually reduces the physical experience of pain, so I find it utilitarian.

The other argument you'll find is that combat pilots probably swear a lot, so in some campaigns you may run into some obscenity. The Beyond the Red Line demo is brilliant, but if you find 'frak' offensive, you should probably steer clear of it.

[Dragon]

I think that "Frak" shouldn't be offensive, afterall, that's the whole point of euphemisms.
It stands for much worse word, but a child mostl likely never heard it, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Granted, euphemisms sometimes become offensive, but "Frak" is obviously too recent for it, as it was apperantely popularized with BSG (SW used it somewhere in EU, but that's all about it).

[Mongoose]

I don't see any problem with the desire for censored versions of campaigns, even if I wouldn't have any particular use for them myself.  Putting aside the arguments about whether or not certain words can prove more harmful than others, or the possible religious connotations that certain words may hold to some people, I don't think anyone would argue that there are words that society as a whole tends to identify as being rather rude.  Parents generally (or hopefully) try to raise their children to act politely in a public setting (what goes on at home may be another matter, as my mom would probably say ), and part of that politeness involves being polite in language.  The FS series doesn't really have any content from a mechanical/graphical standpoint that could be considered objectionable for younger children, so it's not out of the question that some parents out there might want to let their kids give it a try.  However, if a young-enough kid starts hearing/reading certain instances of that language on a regular basis without understanding their context and when (if ever) they would be appropriate to use, odds are they're going to repeat said language at some point, possibly in a public setting, which isn't exactly a good thing from a parent's standpoint.  If parents want to limit a child's exposure to such language until they're able to use it responsibly, why not grant them that discretion?

NeoKnight, if I had some more concrete coding experience and knew the FS2 codebase at all, I might try my hand at something like this, just to see if it could be done without too much trouble.  As it stands, your best bet is probably just to edit the mission files to censor whatever particular language instances you'd find inappropriate. The easiest way to do this would probably be to open up each mission file in Notepad and do a Replace on the usual suspects.  (Voice-acted campaigns obviously present another level of difficulty, since you'd have to go in and tweak the sound files.)  I'm sure the community sites like FSMods would be fine with providing hosting for the edited files if you're in need of it.