[Kosh]

So any thoughts about the brewing debt crisis in the PIGS (Portugal Italy Greece Spain) debt crisis? Personally I think this could cause major problems for the Euro, since it doesn't really have much in the way of instututional backing (no EU treasury, etc), but to its credit the EU officials seem to get that this is a real problem. I recommend listening to this podcast.

[The E]

since it doesn't really have much in the way of instututional backing (no EU treasury, etc),

*cough*ECB*cough*

The problem is that the EUs financial institutions have been far too lenient in the past. We'll have to see how willing they are to really step on some toes in order to fix this; taking away Greece's and Italy's fiscal autonomy would probably be a good first step, but one that is guaranteed to not being taken.

Right now, it pretty much seems like Germany, France and the other net contributors to the EU budget will have to foot the bill, which is guaranteed to be somewhat controversial around here at least.

[JMN]

Oh, I always was an opponent of Poland joining the euro zone.
Guess I was right. Especially after this "taking away Greece's and Italy's fiscal autonomy would probably be a good first step".

[The E]

You don't seem to understand. When these countries adopted the Euro, they agreed to abide by certain terms and regulations. They were unable to do so. Now that they have caused this much trouble for the whole of Europe, there needs to be some repercussions.

(Also note that I said that they would probably not take things this far. It's far too much trouble.)

[Mika]

Even at the risk of this becoming yet again another political thread, I'll say whatever happens to Iceland happens to these countries also. If Iceland debts are not forgotten, so should not these.

I guess I need to put on the flame proof suit for saying this, but here goes:
The thing that boggles my mind is how come these European countries with such a large population count, wealth of natural resources and long glorious histories manage to do so bad financially? My understanding has been that EU has been giving lots of monetary support to each of them, yet it all seems to have been in vain.

Expecting backfire anytime soon...

[The E]

Have you looked at Italian or Greek politics lately?

[headdie]

the problem with the ECB and related bodies governing the euro and other financial matters is that they are all part of the EU which was a financial "alliance" founded to prevent future European started world wars between the principle European powers involved. over the decades since it has evolved into federal quasi government which has to pander to the whims of its composite governments whom have issues with each other lasting centuries and no short term benefit for the representatives to break.

this means is all the bodies within have lots of theoretical legal power but no political strength to back it up because as soon as action is suggested two countries veto it (of which my country the UK is a regular offender).  Then the rest of the EU without a veto on the topic complain and the whole process gets dragged out three years by then the whole topic is mute because the situation has changed.

its the league of nations all over again.


btw i am very pro EU just not in the way it exists today

[JMN]

What I dislike about EU is the loss of DeGaulian EU concept and lack of democracy in the UE.
Making Ireland accept the treaty, renaming the Constitutional Treaty to "Lisbon" Treaty when it lost in France.
It's the neo-eurosocialism and as a libertarian I do not accept the way UE exists at all.

[GoulMeister]

The treaty was voted in by referendum here in Ireland. noone make us accept anything except the normal political rubbish.

[Wobble73]

What I dislike about EU is the loss of DeGaulian EU concept and lack of democracy in the UE.
Making Ireland accept the treaty, renaming the Constitutional Treaty to "Lisbon" Treaty when it lost in France.
It's the neo-eurosocialism and as a libertarian I do not accept the way UE exists at all.

UE 

United Emirates??? 

[JMN]

The treaty was voted in by referendum here in Ireland. noone make us accept anything except the normal political rubbish.

You call voting over same thing twice "not forced"?
UE = EU
Unia Europejska = European Union

[Liberator]

I'm not going to weigh in on this too much, as I know little about European politics.

I will only say this, this was coming, it was coming and the world wide financial slowdown from the overuse of "free" credit only made it happen sooner.

[Kosh]

You don't seem to understand. When these countries adopted the Euro, they agreed to abide by certain terms and regulations. They were unable to do so. Now that they have caused this much trouble for the whole of Europe, there needs to be some repercussions.

(Also note that I said that they would probably not take things this far. It's far too much trouble.)

According to that podcast there are anti-EU demonstrations happening in Greece. Thing is, it's their own damn fault and if the EU taking away their fiscal autonomy is the only way to clean up their act, so be it.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

the problem with the ECB and related bodies governing the euro and other financial matters is that they are all part of the EU which was a financial "alliance" founded to prevent future European started world wars between the principle European powers involved.

Ah, the mistaken (?) belief that
a) the ECCS was a financial alliance
b) trade is not politics.

The EU in all it's incarnations has always been a political construct first, and something else second.