Author Topic: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)  (Read 2883 times)

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Offline Bob-san

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Re: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)
All those LCD TV's that boast about "600Hz Sub-Field Drive" here in Aus...

I did see a Panasonic plasma TV that was almost like looking out of a window with really clean glass, but was $4k and also most people can't fit 127cm of TV on their desk.
Nor would they want to. Televisions look horrible from close-in, at least when compared to computer monitors. Pixel pitch et al.
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Offline Flaser

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Re: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)
When will you people learn?

Refresh rate is irrelevant with TFT technology. It's not getting "scanned". Input lag and refresh time *are*, but these are not the same as a refresh rate. The fact that you need to speak about refresh rate with a CRT is not a feature but an inherent limitation of the technology.

...still I use a CRT. Why?

The reasons are many, namely I find that TN panel "cheap" monitors look like crap. They have no color fidelity and their black is quite bright. (Some of them can't even display proper 16-bit color! They only have 6-7 bit/color resolution with dithering in some models, that's why!)

IPS and PVA TFT are actually very nice... but darn expensive. I don't have that kind of money lying around as long as my old hardware is sufficient.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)
Hrmmm... my Samsung SyncMaster 2253BW is the best monitor I've ever owned - and that's coming from SyncMaster CRTs before.  I've never even seen a hint of ghosting, and the colour and contrast are far superior to its predecessors.
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Offline CP5670

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Re: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)
Quote
When will you people learn?

Refresh rate is irrelevant with TFT technology. It's not getting "scanned". Input lag and refresh time *are*, but these are not the same as a refresh rate. The fact that you need to speak about refresh rate with a CRT is not a feature but an inherent limitation of the technology.

This is wrong. The video card always outputs pixels at a fixed rate, given by the refresh rate, regardless of the type of display it is connected to. The refresh rate definitely matters on an LCD.  It doesn't control flickering as it does on a CRT, but it still puts a cap on the maximum framerate the LCD can display and influences tearing effects and vsync.

The genuine 120hz LCDs look significantly smoother in motion than standard 60hz ones, even while just moving the mouse around in Windows, and are more flexible with vsync as well. The current 120hz computer displays are all TNs and mediocre in other ways, but there are a few (expensive) DLP TVs that are better.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)
Actually, CP, even an increase from 60 hertz to 85 produces enough change to be noticeable by the human eye. I've seen how unrealistically smooth graphics are at 85 hertz, so I can only imagine how it must look at 120. :nervous:
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Offline Flaser

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Re: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)
Quote
When will you people learn?

Refresh rate is irrelevant with TFT technology. It's not getting "scanned". Input lag and refresh time *are*, but these are not the same as a refresh rate. The fact that you need to speak about refresh rate with a CRT is not a feature but an inherent limitation of the technology.

This is wrong. The video card always outputs pixels at a fixed rate, given by the refresh rate, regardless of the type of display it is connected to. The refresh rate definitely matters on an LCD.  It doesn't control flickering as it does on a CRT, but it still puts a cap on the maximum framerate the LCD can display and influences tearing effects and vsync.

The genuine 120hz LCDs look significantly smoother in motion than standard 60hz ones, even while just moving the mouse around in Windows, and are more flexible with vsync as well. The current 120hz computer displays are all TNs and mediocre in other ways, but there are a few (expensive) DLP TVs that are better.

I call bull****.
Yes, a human can definitely notice a change in flicker rate, however as far as perceived motion goes, there is really little effect beyond 60 FPS. There is a reason why movies are still shot at 24 FPS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 10:09:02 am by Flaser »
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)
Well, 24 FPS video still looks cool... :nervous:
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MP-Ryan
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Offline CP5670

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Re: Monitor discussion (split from CPU thread)
Quote
Actually, CP, even an increase from 60 hertz to 85 produces enough change to be noticeable by the human eye. I've seen how unrealistically smooth graphics are at 85 hertz, so I can only imagine how it must look at 120.

I use either 85hz or 120hz depending on the resolution, and it's a big improvement over 60hz in old games that can maintain such a framerate. The difference is especially obvious in flying games with smooth and steady turning motions, such as FS2 or the Descent games.

Quote
I call bull****.
Yes, a human can definitely notice a change in flicker rate, however as far as perceived motion goes, there is really little effect beyond 60 FPS. There is a reason why movies are still shot at 24 FPS.

Movies use blurring and interlacing techniques and don't look quite as bad as a game does at 24fps, but they still aren't entirely smooth. Compare a movie to walking around in real life. You should notice a difference if you look for it.

Read this article. There is no threshold of X fps beyond which things are imperceptible. Humans don't see in terms of frames. It depends on the types of images involved as well as what the person is used to. As you said yourself, flickering on a CRT is noticeable well beyond that.