Author Topic: The project  (Read 8084 times)

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Offline Snail

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I think the BP guys are a lot smarter than the Inferno guys at storylines so it won be an Icanus or anything like that. The most likely theory IMO is the exodus one or maybe they close the jump gate somehow but that's not as cool and doesn't make as much sense as the other theory. I really think the absolute least likely theory is the supership/superweapon theory, because BP isn't Inferno, and if it is I'll go on the record as being disappointed if it is just a giant Solaris with beam cannons or something like that (which it really won't be I'm willing to bet money).


I also think it might have something to do with that ship from AoA (forget the name,the sleeper ship with the Captain Iwakura) that disappeared. THe Agincourt and the GTVA Logistics ships that defected at the beginning before WIH also have some important role to play. But anything that needs to be built would probably benefit from logistics ships being at hand, so that actually doesn't really tell us all that much.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 06:45:12 am by Snail »

 
I really doubt the exodus is going to happen. Would the elders be able to move the 18+ billion men, women and children of the UEF to an alternate universe? How would you feed them when you get there? This isn't a war about which ships blow up which; the UEF is trying to protect its home and its people.

The project obviously involves the Bei's, because Sam mentions working on something big to his father. Then there's Laporte's abduction by the Fedayeen and that particular elder's (I forget her name) discussion during the mission with the Pegasus ambush, which shows the Council's interest in psychics. This is an extension of project Nagari (that's the name, right?). Basically ETAK 2.0

The stuff above is hinted heavily enough in the campaign that it HAS to be something involving contact with the big otherworldlies. I think the real question has to be: what does the UEF want them to do? What will they do?

The Vishnans are non-intervensionist, for the most part. They stay out of almost everything (FS 1+ 2) or they're really, really, really subtle. Their deal is to make sure the natural order of the Universe doesn't fall apart. The UEF's been listening for a year, but the Vishnans have said nothing. They don't have any qualms about talking to squishies when its important (AoA), so either they want to leave humanity to solve their own problem or the Shivans have them all tied up. The absolute most I can see the Vishnans doing during the course of WiH1 is just making sure the Shivans don't follow their nature and swoop down on all the chaos and bloodshed with beams of red death. So I don't think Byrne's calling the Vishnans.

I think he wants the Shivans.

First, in a totally meta sense, it doesn't seem to me like the BP team would resort to such Deus Ex Machina as to have the great lawful-good force of the universe come in and save the heroes at the last second. These guys love to work with moral ambiguities. That the good guys would get so desperate as to make a deal with the devil offers some complex story potential.

Second, Laporte's visions differ greatly from Sam's. The Vishnans contacted him (relatively) peacefully and tried not to totally shatter his mind. Ken showed up to Laporte in a red nebula, telling her that she must "destroy in order to preserve." We know that Shivans are at the absolute least familiar with nebula's (FS2) and I'd go as far to say that its among their "homes," as opposed to the weird spectral landscape of the Vishnans. Plus FS1 tells us that the whole preservation/destruction connection is probably a Shivan ideal.

Third, we don't know a lot about Byrne other than that he's cautious and careful with his own forces. The impression I got, (though this is up to interpretation) is he's a good man being pushed to his emotional extremes by the hand he's dealt. He knows he's running out of time. With things getting so close to the wire, would anyone be so surprised if he lost sight of his ethics, even for just a moment? The Vishnans aren't coming, and his super-project needs steam. Luckily, the preservers aren't the only kids on the block.

So we've got the Fedayeen picking up a psychic super-conduit to the Shivans for Byrne's secret project. I'm almost certain he means to contact the destroyers. But what then? My guess would be to launch a third incursion in GTVA space. If it were big enough, Steele would be forced to relinquish a large portion of his forces. Byrne might be hoping to force the GTVA to partner with the UEF against their common enemy, and in so doing forge an alliance similar to that which ended the T-V war. Although, I have a feeling this would go horribly, horribly wrong.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2011, 08:57:22 am by daedalus2309 »

 

Offline Deadly in a Shadow

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Maybe the BP-team wants you to think that Ken is Shivan/Shivan-related. That would be too obvious if he is just a ****in Shivan.

What about something like a quantum-pulse control emitter or something like that? A control device that can "control" the Shivans (or even Vishnans, that would be a great blow) like Mengsk did in Starcraft to the Zerg (lol).
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Offline Black Wolf

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I think he wants the Shivans.

Hell yeah! :D Hard to justify character wise, but I wouldn't care. Would make up for a lot of the UEF's general pussyness if they up and sicked the Shivans on Beta Aquilae as nothing more than a diversion to give themselves time to close the Sol Gate. Do eet!
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Offline -Norbert-

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I really doubt the exodus is going to happen. Would the elders be able to move the 18+ billion men, women and children of the UEF to an alternate universe? How would you feed them when you get there? This isn't a war about which ships blow up which; the UEF is trying to protect its home and its people.
If they just wanted to preserve their homes and lives, they would have surrendered right away. They fight to protect their way of living, their philosophy... in a way they don't fight for their bodies, but for their souls.

Quote
Second, Laporte's visions differ greatly from Sam's. The Vishnans contacted him (relatively) peacefully and tried not to totally shatter his mind. Ken showed up to Laporte in a red nebula, telling her that she must "destroy in order to preserve." We know that Shivans are at the absolute least familiar with nebula's (FS2) and I'd go as far to say that its among their "homes," as opposed to the weird spectral landscape of the Vishnans. Plus FS1 tells us that the whole preservation/destruction connection is probably a Shivan ideal.
Laporte wasn't "pulled" into that nebula scenario by Ken. If I'm not misreading the facts here, it was Vicmouth who somehow caused this vision, or whatever it was, in order to evaluate her Nagari potential.
The only times we know of that Ken showed up by himself (or was subconciously called by Laporte maybe) was his manifestation as her invisible friend in her childhood.
Assuming Ken really is a tangible being in the first place and not just some manifestation of Laportes overstressed mind or somesuch.

Quote
I think he wants the Shivans.

First, in a totally meta sense, it doesn't seem to me like the BP team would resort to such Deus Ex Machina as to have the great lawful-good force of the universe come in and save the heroes at the last second. These guys love to work with moral ambiguities. That the good guys would get so desperate as to make a deal with the devil offers some complex story potential.
[...]
Third, we don't know a lot about Byrne other than that he's cautious and careful with his own forces. The impression I got, (though this is up to interpretation) is he's a good man being pushed to his emotional extremes by the hand he's dealt. He knows he's running out of time. With things getting so close to the wire, would anyone be so surprised if he lost sight of his ethics, even for just a moment? The Vishnans aren't coming, and his super-project needs steam. Luckily, the preservers aren't the only kids on the block.

So we've got the Fedayeen picking up a psychic super-conduit to the Shivans for Byrne's secret project. I'm almost certain he means to contact the destroyers. But what then? My guess would be to launch a third incursion in GTVA space. If it were big enough, Steele would be forced to relinquish a large portion of his forces. Byrne might be hoping to force the GTVA to partner with the UEF against their common enemy, and in so doing forge an alliance similar to that which ended the T-V war. Although, I have a feeling this would go horribly, horribly wrong.
That would be a hell of a gamble, considering the Shivans could have wiped out the GTVA easily with those 80 Sathanas, if they really wanted to. And let's face it, even with the whole GTVA and the UEF united, they still couldn't beat 80 Sathanas, unless they are considerade enough to turn up one after the other without any support and no shockjumping, not to mention a Dante or several. And who knows what else the Shivans have that we don't know about.

Now an alliance with the Shivans might be a bit more sensible to some small degree. We still don't know what exactly happened on board the Iceni to make the Shivans slaughter the majority of the crew. It might very well have been started by a panicked trooper and the Shivans only retaliated untill the whole supposedly friendly visit escalated into a bloodbath.

 

Offline Damage

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I thought that Samual Bei was a conduit to the Vishnans, and it makes a certain kind of sense that LaPorte would be a conduit to their opposite numbers.  Still, we don't know exactly who "Ken" represents, except that he's somehow connected to the whole Nagari concept, and that Nagari is somehow connected to the Shivans and/or Vishnans. 

Did the GTVA and/or the UEF have any notion that the Vishnans existed before the 14th returned from the alternate universe?


I can see the UEF leaders (Byrne) and the Elders of Ubuntu trying like crazy to contact the Vishnans.  But I tend to agree with daedalus2309--the Vishnans are big fans of the Prime Directive and they didn't lift a finger to stop the Shivans from attacking the GTA/PVE during the Great War.  (Did this represent a judgement of some kind on the two races?)

I think that the UEF's plan somehow involves attempting to contact the Vishnans, probably backed up by the Beis's information and contact with them, probably with the intent of getting them to intervene or at least help mediate some sort of peace talks.  Getting LaPorte involved is essential (story-wise) because she apparently is the most psi-sensitive individual ever encountered by "The Project."  Finding her is kind of a bonus though, because whatever The Project is, it didn't necessarily involve LaPorte before.

And I think it's highly likely that their plans will be sent awry.  A call to the Vishans for some kind of assistance will probably be answered, but not by the Vishnans.

After this, my thinking gets kind of fuzzier, but I have images of UEF ships trying desperately to break out of Sol, Steele and Serkr Team engaging a major Shivan battlegroup, and LaPorte having some kind of showdown.
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Offline Aardwolf

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Well duh, Laporte is the door.

 
Well duh, Laporte is the door.
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Stop being so litteral. :D

 

Offline QuakeIV

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I usually try to avoid guessing the storylins (like to look forward to it), but i will allow myself this one post as the team seems to not mind them.

Always had it in my head the Beis are trying to contact the Vishnans and begging them to send in the Cavalry (Preserver alone could probably wipe out Steele's entire battlegroup, let alone the Atreus), but for some reason the Vishnans arn't responding to them; maybe they want the humans to work this one out themselves.

Whatever it is, hope it works. I really want the UEF to win this. :(

...

Failing the above, they're building a time machine to grab Chuck Norris. (sorry poor joke couldn't resist :lol:)

even to vishans are powerfull remember they are already at their top firepower effectiveness, it has been shown already that GTVA forces can engage and defeat shivan forces that don't include over 1 sathanas, whereas a single sathanas ripped apart a sacred keeper of the vishnans, from what i have seen i m sure the GTVA could pose a good fight against Vishnan forces,  specially given we already know they are fighting with all their technological power.

 
i m alpha 1 -.- bring me any number of sathanas with a single fighter i will destroy all of them :D done it before, can do it again. ah right.. and give me a support ship to get moar warheads ...

 

Offline The E

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You are Alpha 1. You engage a Sathanas on your own in a BP mission. You get ripped to shreds. Because this ain't retail.
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You are Alpha 1. You engage a Sathanas on your own in a BP mission. You get ripped to shreds. Because this ain't retail.

I was having a bit of an issue with the difficulty scaling between the two games, and having the plot make much sense. Warships are deployed in strangely weak tactical doctrines, weapons fire is sluggish and ineffective most of the time, bombers are effective rather then flying deathtraps, ect compared to BP. Then it hit me. The difference can be chalked up to the unreliable narrator depecting sanitized, historical events. Perhaps a War College course on the career of the storied Alpha One that leaves out the true difficulty involved. The Retail game is much easier simply because you're expected to win.

 

Offline -Norbert-

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even to vishans are powerfull remember they are already at their top firepower effectiveness, it has been shown already that GTVA forces can engage and defeat shivan forces that don't include over 1 sathanas, whereas a single sathanas ripped apart a sacred keeper of the vishnans, from what i have seen i m sure the GTVA could pose a good fight against Vishnan forces,  specially given we already know they are fighting with all their technological power.
The weapons the vishnans use seem to be at full power from scans the 14th made. But considering that the GTVA has only scans of them being used and never got their hands on any themsefls, that they could take apart and study in depth, that isn't exactly reliable data. They don't understand the technology the Vishnans use and thus their conclusions don't have to be true. And even if they were, who says the Vishnans don't have better weapons stored away in their arsenals that the GTVA simply never saw in action?

And I wouldn't put too much stock in the Sath destroying the Sacred Keeper. First off the Keeper seems to be more of a carrier than a frontline battleship.
When the Sacred Keeper was destroyed it was from behind and after it forced it's way through two Shivan blockades. It was already damaged and it's mainguns were down.
I also got the impression that the Keeper could have fled, but instead chose to warn the 14th battlegroup of the incoming threat, even though it would mean they'd have to sacrifice themselfs (or rather their current manifestation in that universe, according to the backstory).
If they have similar endless-seeming ressources as the Shivans, then the loss of a single Keeper means very little to them and having it heroically sacrifice itself to make the GTVA believe the Vishnans are a benevolent race, only interrested in helping them might well be worth the loss, in their eyes. The mention that "Vishnan Keepers and Sathanas Juggernauts are doing battle all over the system" in the briefing of Universal Truth would suggest that they have lots of those ships and thus the loss of a single one isn't much of a problem for them.

 

Offline Mars

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Yeah, the GTVA has had a lot more time to study shivans than vishnans
(practically speaking, no idea what they're going to do with the story-line

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Couldn't the Orestes have recovered the fighter sam was inhabiting?
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Offline The E

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Except he wasn't in the fighter, but in the wreckage of the sacred keeper....
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline Drogoth

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Except he wasn't in the fighter, but in the wreckage of the sacred keeper....

I think he means the fighter that Sam was 'inhabiting'. As in the one that went adrift after the destruction of the Keeper. The GTVA could have recovered those allthought I tend to think they might not incase it pissed the Vishnans off. And as far as they knew, the Vishnans were their only ally. I doubt they would want to rock the boat, but it is possible that they recovered the derelicts
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Offline -Norbert-

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My guess would be that they put a higher priority on getting the hell away from the Sathanas to regroup than on capturing alien fighters.

I just had a thought how the project can be a ship, without being a Deus Ex Machina.
Maybe the project is really just about a little, but important device. But to make sure it's save, they also build a new destroyer to carry the device around.
No... I'm not really serious with this... mostly.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 10:36:37 am by -Norbert- »