[pecenipicek]

does anyone have comparisons for the sale of the original Syndicate? because something tells me this sold far more than the original

[Flipside]

If they'd have made the new X-Com game to run as a FPS, all manner of hellfire and brimstone would have been rained down on them, same case here.

There are some things that go outside of 'storyline' when defining computer games, it's like serving pasta on a bed of jam, they might both be delicious individually and appeal to Pasta Lovers in one case and Jam Lovers in the other, but try and put the two together and you get something that appeals to neither, even if they like both individually.

It's the fact that a lot of companies view the computer game industry like the film industry, Computer Games have several 'methods' of delivering the story in the way you interact with the interface. Games like Syndicate Wars worked because you took the role of the 'unseen controller', usually the character in the movie who appears only for the final scene, if at all. Computer Games are the only media where the Protagonist can actually be completely invisible throughout the experience. FPS Games, however, are the complete opposite, making the Protagonist the central interactive focus of the game, where you quite literally control his/her every action.

There's nothing wrong with that, it provides a more intense, personal experience, but in the case of Syndicate Wars, that's not what made the game so great, quite the opposite in fact, it was the removed, 'distant' style of gameplay that made it work.

[Spoon]

does anyone have comparisons for the sale of the original Syndicate? because something tells me this sold far more than the original

Which is of course a completely pointless comparison if you don't factor in production costs (and the time in which it was made and how much the market is different now)
Something tells me that with the budget of this latest 'reboot' you could have funded 10 old syndicate games.

[Alan Bolte]

Was Syndicate really that bad? I never played it, but what I'd heard was that the single-player wasn't really any dumber than most generic FPS, and the co-op was better than Left 4 Dead.

[NGTM-1R]

If they'd have made the new X-Com game to run as a FPS, all manner of hellfire and brimstone would have been rained down on them, same case here.

Case in point; they did, and it did. It's unclear whether 2K Marin's XCOM shooter will ever see the light of day now, as it's already been postponed back first six months and then another six months.

[headdie]

If they'd have made the new X-Com game to run as a FPS, all manner of hellfire and brimstone would have been rained down on them, same case here.

Case in point; they did, and it did. It's unclear whether 2K Marin's XCOM shooter will ever see the light of day now, as it's already been postponed back first six months and then another six months.

enforcer anyone? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Enforcer

[Flipside]

I seem to recall that Enforcer had no more luck establishing a strategy-game storyline into an action theme than any of the others. It's like... have you ever seen the film 'Battleship' - Based on the Hasbro Game? That is what I mean, the only thing the two have in common is Battles and Ships, but there's no realistic way to link the action on the screen with the table-top strategy game. A 'FPS Syndicate' falls roughly into the same category as 'Action movie about the game Battleship'. What comes out the other end might be a great movie, or a great game, but it just lost pretty much everything definitive in translation.

[jr2]

When I saw the opening credits for Battleship and it said based off of the Hasbro game, I wanted to choke someone.    Come on.  Seriously?  If it was some sort of runaway computer playing Battleship and instead ordering actual assets around, maybe you could sort of wrangle a link.  I think it has more to do with the fact the Battleship is what they wanted to name the movie.  However, Hasbro's got that trademarked, so they had to include Hasbro in the little deal.  My quick guess, anyways.  It doesn't make sense otherwise.

[Akalabeth Angel]

When I saw the opening credits for Battleship and it said based off of the Hasbro game, I wanted to choke someone.    Come on.  Seriously?  If it was some sort of runaway computer playing Battleship and instead ordering actual assets around, maybe you could sort of wrangle a link.  I think it has more to do with the fact the Battleship is what they wanted to name the movie.  However, Hasbro's got that trademarked, so they had to include Hasbro in the little deal.  My quick guess, anyways.  It doesn't make sense otherwise.

There is supposidely a bit in battleship where they launch targetting devices or whatnot, in an effort to find the enemy (ie saying B4 or E8 or whatever). Didn't watch it myself. Seemed like a transformers wanna be and unsurprisingly by the same studio. Terrible

[jr2]

Err... yeah ok so they were using a grid of sonar tsunami-tracking buoys to target the enemy ships... The movie is hardly based on that sequence, it's just a plot device.

[BlueFlames]

The movie is hardly based on that sequence, it's just a plot device.

Probably because someone realized that such a sequence for 90 minutes would be mind-numbingly dull.  Not to say that that's necessarily worse than what was actually shoveled into theatres.  It's just a different kind of terrible.

[Ghostavo]

Depends on how you do it. Minesweeper could be interesting.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Err... yeah ok so they were using a grid of sonar tsunami-tracking buoys to target the enemy ships... The movie is hardly based on that sequence, it's just a plot device.

Yeah it's a plot device that directly ties into the gameplay of battleship though. Battleship is just a guessing game, people putting plastic pieces on a grid and some god figure guessing where they are to destroy them. (I saw god figure because the ability to attack the enemy isn't dependent on what ships you have). Is it a loose tie in? Sure. But is that any different than these movies that are "based on a real story" and vary from the truth by some huge degree like U571? (Let's have an american submarine capture the enigma device, instead of a British surface ship).

The problem or benefit of basing a movie on an abstract game is that you can basically do anything you damn well please and still tie it in.

[Al-Rik]

My issue with most FPSes is that they focus on simplistic gameplay and often have a poor excuse for a story, focusing on multiplayer.

Well, there isn't anything wrong on simplistic gameplay and focus on multiplayer - if they are doing it right.

But they doing it wrong.
For example Battlefield 3. It's focus is the multiplayer, but they striped all of the tools for teamwork that made Battlefield 2 unique.
Instead they add a lot of upgrades making the game more complex without improving the teamwork beyond the standard of usual FPS.

The last Singleplayer FPS I really enjoyed was the Stalker Series. I like the exploring of the open world, which was more fun than shooting at the baddies.

[MrUnimport]

Would someone who actually played the original Syndicate please fill me in here? I keep hearing comments implying that the original squad-based tactics game in fact wasn't a whole lot deeper than Cannon Fodder, is this true?

Of course, it goes without saying that that's still much deeper than hack-everything-button.

[Flipside]

Losing a unit in a mission wasn't the end of the world, the equipment it carried was a bigger loss, but it was more about utilizing the team on multiple fronts and converting masses of civilians into a flesh wall

[Davros]

I played the original but not cannon fodder so I cant compare
but syndicate had a certain depth, you took over territories and leveled taxes, you had to find the right amount or the people would revolt also other syndictes would be doing the same and you had to take over their territory
you could persuade civilians to help you fight, research weapons and upgrades, you can enhance your agents with cybernetics also change their mental state by administering drugs to them to increase stamina, intelligence ect. you had to be careful doing this as the drugs had side effects. you could pick up weapons from enemies to use/salvage or research. Do you use a new high tech weapon in your next mission or do you send it off to research so that after some time you could manufacture your own.

ps: Syndicate Wars works great under win 7 with a port (you still need the original game)
http://swars.vexillium.org/

[Grizzly]

To each their own, I suppose. I liked the NPCs, idea for economy seemed brilliant and the atmosphere was great. Gameplay was nothing stellar, but I don't play FPSes (other than ArmA) for gameplay. Maybe if the same story was told differently, it's be average, but something in a way it was told just got me. I especially liked the beginning, later (after Polis station) it got somewhat weird, but still enjoyable. I don't have much to say for the puzzles, but they felt allright. Afterall, strange visions inside your head are rarely coherent. They felt right and weren't too difficult.

As for level design, it was indeed quite poor gameplay-wise, but very realistic. Let's face it, Moscow metro wasn't build with such events in mind, and it certainly felt like it. I'm not sure about auditory directional handling complaint, I didn't pay that much attention to sound system, but with my 5.1 headphones, it sounded really good. It also had amazing graphics, which I was able to experience in all their DX10 glory (decision to switch to Vista finally starts paying off).

Note, the above is coming from a guy living at the doorstep of former Soviet Union. Moscow is much closer to me than Las Vegas, both culturally and geographically. One thing I liked about Metro is that it was very Russian. I guess that somebody living in a different place might have different feelings about it.

Also, I wonder if you noticed a Discworld shout-out (because there's no way that could be accidental, I tell you).

The idea for the economy itself wasn't bad.  But the way it was implemented rendered it pointless.

The audio thing went something like this: I heard something towards my left, I looked left, guy that's now behind me shoots me.  Maybe this issue doesn't exist on surround sound setups, as I was using headphones.

And yes, the atmosphere was handled very well.

Metro 2033 gets a lot better when you play it more stealthily and in a more explory way. I highly recommend you do this, especially since (and don't read this if you intend to play the game again in such a fashion - seriously)

Spoiler:

you then get the option to save the dark ones.