[The E]

And they're eating all the profits.

Read this article.

TL;DR: There are apparently bots running around on Amazon trying to turn a profit by posing as used-books-sellers, even for stuff that is print-on-demand.

[Ghostavo]

Brilliant!

[General Battuta]

amazon is evil as ****

-ibid.

[redsniper]

Man, this is some surreal 21st century stuff. I've seen some of those domain-name-squatting sites that I'm pretty sure were made by robots.

[Alex Heartnet]

Ahh, ain't technology wonderful? 

Kinda makes you wonder what other surreal things are going on in the world.

[Scourge of Ages]

I can't imagine how this sort of thing could work (the fake book creation). All it takes is one person buying one copy of a fake book, and reporting that it doesn't exist and neither does the seller, and then the seller gets IP banned.
And the bot doesn't get any money, because all new sellers are on probation for quite some time after their first sale before they actually get the money from it.
I suppose that if enough bots did it, eventually somebody would buy something and then not complain for long enough for the bot to profit, but that would downgrade the problem to just a huge annoyance.

The other thing, drop-selling somebody else's book for a huge markup, could work in theory. But there are two ways to look at it: 1) if the bot needs to buy a copy from you to fill his order, hey, you still made a sale. As long as the bot doesn't leave you bad feedback, you get the reward without the risk. 2) If you know it's a bot that's buying your book - if it's a physical copy that you possess - you can simply refuse the sale and/or report the bot for breaking Amazon TOS. He gets IP banned, and maybe his buyer will now come to you.

Anyway, if Amazon is aware of the problem, I'm sure they'll be working on fixing it in their own special way.

EDIT: There is however a well known issue with auto-price matching software that many sellers will use to compete automatically, to a point. That's a different situation though, usually those sellers do actually have the items, and if they're not careful two price-matching bots will fight each other down to a penny.

[Mongoose]

So with “Turing Test” we have a delightful futuristic absurdity: a computer program, pretending to be human, hawking a book about computers pretending to be human, while other computer programs pretend to have used copies of it.

BOOKCEPTION

[BlueFlames]

*Sigh*

I thought of something else when the phrase "Amazon bots" was mentioned.  Best apocalyse scenerio ever.

[Mikes]

I can't imagine how this sort of thing could work (the fake book creation). All it takes is one person buying one copy of a fake book, and reporting that it doesn't exist and neither does the seller, and then the seller gets IP banned.

As I understood it... the bot asks for a higher price than Amazon and just waits for some sucker to buy. (Keep in mind that this is an automatic program that likely requires no user interaction, it's patience is unlimited. Human buyers on the other hand are bound to make the occasional mistake   )Then it can actually buy to book from amazon and send it to the sucker! = profits LOL.

Going a step further: Considering that some books that are available on amazon.com will not be listed at amazon.co.uk or amazon.de or if they are listed, are often listed at different prices... you can easily see how an internationally operating bot can actually easily turn a profit by listing a book in a country where it isn't sold normally at inflated prices ... or simply list it in a country where the price is high, but then buy it somewhere where the price+shipping cost is cheaper.

[Scourge of Ages]

As I understood it... the bot asks for a higher price than Amazon and just waits for some sucker to buy. (Keep in mind that this is an automatic program that likely requires no user interaction, it's patience is unlimited. Human buyers on the other hand are bound to make the occasional mistake   )Then it can actually buy to book from amazon and send it to the sucker! = profits LOL.

Well there were two different things mentioned in that article. I'm most confused by the Wikipedia-aggregated books, which are illegal on so many levels.

Just look at them! Looooooook at them! Despair at the terrible sight of "The Incredible Hulk (2008 Video Game) by Lambert M. Surhone"!

[Alex Heartnet]

I can't imagine how this sort of thing could work (the fake book creation). All it takes is one person buying one copy of a fake book, and reporting that it doesn't exist and neither does the seller, and then the seller gets IP banned.
And the bot doesn't get any money, because all new sellers are on probation for quite some time after their first sale before they actually get the money from it.
I suppose that if enough bots did it, eventually somebody would buy something and then not complain for long enough for the bot to profit, but that would downgrade the problem to just a huge annoyance.

The other thing, drop-selling somebody else's book for a huge markup, could work in theory. But there are two ways to look at it: 1) if the bot needs to buy a copy from you to fill his order, hey, you still made a sale. As long as the bot doesn't leave you bad feedback, you get the reward without the risk. 2) If you know it's a bot that's buying your book - if it's a physical copy that you possess - you can simply refuse the sale and/or report the bot for breaking Amazon TOS. He gets IP banned, and maybe his buyer will now come to you.

Anyway, if Amazon is aware of the problem, I'm sure they'll be working on fixing it in their own special way.

EDIT: There is however a well known issue with auto-price matching software that many sellers will use to compete automatically, to a point. That's a different situation though, usually those sellers do actually have the items, and if they're not careful two price-matching bots will fight each other down to a penny.

The first thing to keep in mind is that Amazon has become quite notorious for shady business practices.  With that in mind, it seems plausible to me that they would make bots that violate their own ToS - they made the rules, so they can break them?

Also, according to the article, the bots do have a publisher - Betascript.  I'm guessing if something actually does buy one of these fake books then the publisher will actually print a copy on-demand.

[deathfun]

I was laughing while reading the artcile
I also though half naked women who are bots are coming

[karajorma]

I don't see what the issue is really.

1) Why are people buying a book for $55 when Amazon itself sells the book for $15?
2) If the price war results in the book price dropping to $10 but it is Amazon itself taking the hit, not the author, who gives a **** except Amazon.com? The customers are happy (they paid less), the author is happy (at the lower price but same profit margin he'll make more money from increased sales) and Amazon lose money for not tightening up their security so that bots can't run all over their website.

[Alex Heartnet]

I don't see what the issue is really.

1) Why are people buying a book for $55 when Amazon itself sells the book for $15?
2) If the price war results in the book price dropping to $10 but it is Amazon itself taking the hit, not the author, who gives a **** except Amazon.com? The customers are happy (they paid less), the author is happy (at the lower price but same profit margin he'll make more money from increased sales) and Amazon lose money for not tightening up their security so that bots can't run all over their website.

The answer to #1 can be found in a previous post.

As I understood it... the bot asks for a higher price than Amazon and just waits for some sucker to buy. (Keep in mind that this is an automatic program that likely requires no user interaction, it's patience is unlimited. Human buyers on the other hand are bound to make the occasional mistake   )Then it can actually buy to book from amazon and send it to the sucker! = profits LOL.

Going a step further: Considering that some books that are available on amazon.com will not be listed at amazon.co.uk or amazon.de or if they are listed, are often listed at different prices... you can easily see how an internationally operating bot can actually easily turn a profit by listing a book in a country where it isn't sold normally at inflated prices ... or simply list it in a country where the price is high, but then buy it somewhere where the price+shipping cost is cheaper.

Ultimately, Amazon is at fault for trying to take advantage of consumers like this.  As for #2, apparently they make enough profit off of these bots that this situation doesn't matter.

[karajorma]

Until authors start putting their own bots onto Amazon to drive down the price of their books.

Remember their margin is untouched so why the **** not.

[Klaustrophobia]

if i were one of the authors, i'd be concerned for the fact that scammy looking stuff like that is popping up around my work.  buyers might think the REAL author is wrapped up in it.  i know i run like hell from anything that remotely smells of scam, and i bet i'm not alone in that.

[Alex Heartnet]

Until authors start putting their own bots onto Amazon to drive down the price of their books.

Remember their margin is untouched so why the **** not.

I am sure Amazon will take those bots down while leaving their own bots up.  Then the authors won't be able to sell there at all!

[Mikes]

I am sure Amazon will take those bots down while leaving their own bots up.  Then the authors won't be able to sell there at all!

As I undestood it these bots operate *on* Amazon... they are not necessarily *by* Amazon.

Literally anyone can make them and let them lose. Just wondering why people are immediately jumping to the conclusion that Amazon must be doing this.
I mean I get all the conspiration theory big corporation FUD ... certainly... but afaik there isn't a single fact that would point to Amazon and literally millions of people who could do it just as easily.

If anything then these bots have the potential of hurting Amazons core business by compromising the platform and making customers lose trust in it's security and viability. You could even argue that Amazon is the one entity that has something to lose because of those bots...    so really... anyone other than Amazon looks like a more likely suspect, wouldn't you agree? 


In the example that the author of aboves article specificlaly highlighted... the author made the same money per book sold. The bot's owner got more profit per book sold. Amazon on the other hand, got less money per book sold. Who benefits? Amazon ain't it... so why would they be the ones to make those bots? Just doesn't make sense, so they most likely aren't. Especially since we see multiple bots competing for price the most likely explanation is multiple private persons trying to make a buck. Why would Amazon ruin their own margins? LOL.

Why go conspiracy theory when the facts are really that simple.