[Angelus]

There are of course several ways to pull that off, but i enjoy the game the way it is.
I don't want to babysit my wingman, though i care for some while others can become a scratching post for all i care...anyway.

An option would have been to add another wing of expendable fighters, but the WCS team had a good reason to not do that.

After playing for a while with expendables ( FS), i enjoy having wingman with personality.
I don't care much that they appear to be immortal, as i'm usually busy killing cats.

And playing WCS:DD as a WC Vet ( sortof), i have the feeling i've come home.
Well yeah, it's a home that big aggressive furry maniacs have turned into a litterbox, but still it's WC and i don't want to change a single bit. 

[Mongoose]

Coming from a FS-player background, it's sort of fun to see all this hullabaloo about wingmen.  In FS, if you're not getting your wingmen slaughtered en masse, you're sort of Doing It Wrong.

[Sombre]

Coming from a FS-player background, it's sort of fun to see all this hullabaloo about wingmen.  In FS, if you're not getting your wingmen slaughtered en masse, you're sort of Doing It Wrong.

Doesn't that make it even more likely that the WCS experience of invulnerable helpers is jarring? You have to strike the right balance between the player having to do everything and the missions playing themselves. It's a very, very hard tightrope act.

The best scenarios make you feel successful and important, but still just a dude in a fighter.

[Lorric]

Coming from a FS-player background, it's sort of fun to see all this hullabaloo about wingmen.  In FS, if you're not getting your wingmen slaughtered en masse, you're sort of Doing It Wrong.

Doesn't that make it even more likely that the WCS experience of invulnerable helpers is jarring? You have to strike the right balance between the player having to do everything and the missions playing themselves. It's a very, very hard tightrope act.

The best scenarios make you feel successful and important, but still just a dude in a fighter.

Well said. My favourite too. I don't want to carry my side on my back and I don't want to be a nobody.

You know those jerks in the invulnerable fighters are right too when they tell you you're nothing and nobody. They could win many of the missions without you. It's often pointless you being there.

If the boot was on the other foot, I'd probably be irritated at having to "babysit" the vulnerabe Sandman when I knew I could just clear everything out myself too!

[Sombre]

Well said. My favourite too. I don't want to carry my side on my back and I don't want to be a nobody.

You know those jerks in the invulnerable fighters are right too when they tell you you're nothing and nobody. They could win many of the missions without you. It's often pointless you being there.

If the boot was on the other foot, I'd probably be irritated at having to "babysit" the vulnerabe Sandman when I knew I could just clear everything out myself too!

Ah well, the boot probably would be on the other foot if they could die but it caused a mission failed for Sandman, right? I mean the player is comparatively invulnerable when compared with a standard wingman - especially when the difficulty is lowered.

My point is it's a fair criticism of WCS but it's a really hard problem to solve so we shouldn't be too negative about it. There are so many good games that do a worse job after all. Yes they would ideally all do better on that front, but there's only so many things you can get right when making a game.

Reading around this forum I think the WCS team aren't happy with the manner of negative feedback they're getting on HLP. If this is just a matter of style then it's in the interests of those feeding back to change their style. If it's that they just don't like criticism at all,... well I doubt that's the case.

[General Battuta]

They did spend ten years of their lives working pro bono on a project which is going to get HLP enormous exposure. I think we should be sensitive to that!

[Lorric]

Well said. My favourite too. I don't want to carry my side on my back and I don't want to be a nobody.

You know those jerks in the invulnerable fighters are right too when they tell you you're nothing and nobody. They could win many of the missions without you. It's often pointless you being there.

If the boot was on the other foot, I'd probably be irritated at having to "babysit" the vulnerabe Sandman when I knew I could just clear everything out myself too!

Ah well, the boot probably would be on the other foot if they could die but it caused a mission failed for Sandman, right? I mean the player is comparatively invulnerable when compared with a standard wingman - especially when the difficulty is lowered.

My point is it's a fair criticism of WCS but it's a really hard problem to solve so we shouldn't be too negative about it. There are so many good games that do a worse job after all. Yes they would ideally all do better on that front, but there's only so many things you can get right when making a game.

Reading around this forum I think the WCS team aren't happy with the manner of negative feedback they're getting on HLP. If this is just a matter of style then it's in the interests of those feeding back to change their style. If it's that they just don't like criticism at all,... well I doubt that's the case.

This is very true. And you see it for everything and it really puts me off FRED, because I know there are things on here (Hard Light) that even if I became really good I wouldn't be able to touch, and those things got criticised. I made some stuff for Warcraft 3 but never released it for that same reason, and if I make anything on FRED, I may keep it to myself too. At some point I'm going to make a topic on this, but I'm not sure how, or where to put it.

With Saga, I've tried to point out these are problems I have, that are mine alone, and I know others with a different set of priorities will love this. But it's like my priorities for a game are the Saga team's least priorities, and vice-versa. For me at least, I think Saga's true worth for me will come when they allow others to access and FRED with what they have created. I think I will try and review the game when I beat it. I just have to get past Stalker right now. He dominated me the first time I met. I can't get near him before he cloaks again.

When I made this particular thread, I wanted to avoid criticism, I just wanted my question answered.