[The E]

That would explain it. However. That is stupid as hell. People sell OEM comps with copies of Nortan or Mcafee, think of all the pain.

You haven't thought this through. MS' own statistics show that there's a sizeable portion of the userbase who either never bother to install an AV package, or let the license lapse. Packaging their own solution into the default install solves those issues. If an OEM wants to put another package on there, they're free to do so, but the fact of the matter is that a vanilla Windows 8 installation is now much more secure than a similar Win 7 install.

The only people this will cause pain for are other AV vendors, as they now have to actually work harder to prove that their solutions are better than MSE.

[KyadCK]

That would explain it. However. That is stupid as hell. People sell OEM comps with copies of Nortan or Mcafee, think of all the pain.

You haven't thought this through. MS' own statistics show that there's a sizeable portion of the userbase who either never bother to install an AV package, or let the license lapse. Packaging their own solution into the default install solves those issues. If an OEM wants to put another package on there, they're free to do so, but the fact of the matter is that a vanilla Windows 8 installation is now much more secure than a similar Win 7 install.

The only people this will cause pain for are other AV vendors, as they now have to actually work harder to prove that their solutions are better than MSE.

1% of a million is still 10,000, and "sizeable" could mean anything from 5% to 80%.

I can also say, from personal experience (which is already worth far more than a random MS statistic that i'm sure very few people opt-in to anyway), that people do in fact take the BesyBuy sales guy at their word and get Mcafee or Nortan and do install it, let alone systems that come with it or, even worse, pre-installed. They also do let the licence lapse. See above about it being the leading cause of problems I end up fixing.

MS putting MSE in Win8 by default will not fix any of the above issues. Sales guys + general consumers not knowing better are the best to blame here.

It does, however, provide a solution for those who are smart enough to not listen to the sales guy, need good free AV, don't know enough to install an AV, or as something I can offer over their now expired Nortan that decided to nuke the system's preformance.

[jr2]

I always recommended MSE or AVG Free to customers.  They work 10x better than McAffee or Norton.  (Even when the license isn't expired... they've gotten better, but they are still both resource hogs).

[zaxx_kredda]

i use clamwin, spybot search and destroy, spywareblaster, and if i get symptoms of a bug, i use combofix, but i have nothing running in the background...spybot s&d, and spywareblaster are passive blockers, and i use clamwin to scan files i download...then if i miss something and worse comes to worse, i can always go to safe mode and run combofix (although i usually only have to use it in a normal login)...

and everything is free...

[Klaustrophobia]

i don't think almost completely passive protection and then use combofix if that fails is a terribly good strategy.  combofix has the potential to **** you way harder than the stuff you're trying to remove with it.  it's best left as an extreme last resort.  computers these days have plenty of excess power to run active antivirus processes without slowing you down.  probably even the big name paid ones.

[zaxx_kredda]

has not done anything adverse yet, and it works for me, maybe not for everyone, or their OS, but it works fine on mine...it is the only one that catches one particular folder that doesnt belong every time in the windows root, so im pretty happy with combofix...of course on my old xp machine it did screw it up pretty bad once, but that was a highly modified version of the OS, so it most likely thought the tweaks in place were odd and got rid of them...

but its not completely passive, i do run clamwin (sourceforge offering) and its resident background scanner (an addon) but i usually dont really actively/deliberately use it unless im worried about a download having problems...and then it catches anything i point at if there are any nasties...

[The E]

MS putting MSE in Win8 by default will not fix any of the above issues. Sales guys + general consumers not knowing better are the best to blame here.

How is having an AV solution that is free to use, unobtrusive and always up to date NOT solving those issues?

[KyadCK]

MS putting MSE in Win8 by default will not fix any of the above issues. Sales guys + general consumers not knowing better are the best to blame here.

How is having an AV solution that is free to use, unobtrusive and always up to date NOT solving those issues?

How is having an AV solution that is free to use, unobtrusive and always up to date solving any issues that McAfee and Nortan (being sold to them by the "trusted" BestBuy or other low-level tech store sales floor guy) cause?

It doesn't.

________


Maybe instead of an advertising campaign, they should just have something pop up when they try to install an AV, UAC style. "HEY!, you know Windows 8 already has an AV right? You can install over it with that AV, or you can return that AV to the store since it was wasted money."

[Klaustrophobia]

except at that point it's too late to return it.

[KyadCK]

except at that point it's too late to return it.

Thats true, unfortunately...

[Androgeos Exeunt]

I always recommended MSE or AVG Free to customers.  They work 10x better than McAffee or Norton.  (Even when the license isn't expired... they've gotten better, but they are still both resource hogs).

What? No love for Avast!?

I use Avira, but now they've added many advertisements to their free version, which is annoying (advert popup and ticker). I'll switch to MSE, AVG (again) or Avast! on my next PC.

[Fury]

Maybe instead of an advertising campaign, they should just have something pop up when they try to install an AV, UAC style. "HEY!, you know Windows 8 already has an AV right? You can install over it with that AV, or you can return that AV to the store since it was wasted money."

You seem to have forgotten how much antitrust suits MS has gotten from EU/US and other parties for IE, Media Player and who knows what else. Since it seems they think it is their right to dictate what MS can do with their own product simply because Windows holds majority of OS marketshare in consumer computers. MS was pretty much forced to push an update through WindowsUpdate that lets users to select their web browser from your usual suspects.

You can be assured that there WILL be antitrust suit to counter MS's security software in Win8 sooner or later. Or if it doesn't happen during Win8's prime time, then Win9. And I'd bet this is why MS doesn't keep noise about Win8 having an AV bundled. It's too much of a hassle to them to get antitrust suits.

If this wasn't an issue and MS would be free to do whatever they want with their own OS, I bet they wouldn't let users to install any competitive products without asking twice if they're sure they really want to do so. In the end, who knows which would be worse than the other.

[Mikes]

iirc windows 8 disables mse automatically when it detects another antivirus is installed.

MS should put money into advertising the fact Win8 has anti-virus installed already so people don't install Nortan or McaFee at all. Those two are still the leading cause of problems on computers I fix because they have the half-assed OEM-consumer version that acts like a suicide bomber when the licence runs out.

I used to buy a new norton ever year in the store, for 2 computers, and install it over the old version......     then one year, somehow automatic rebilling was turned on, on ALL (I believe it was 6 copies by then lol) of the products I ever purchased.

Luckily I didn't buy them on the same day and caught on to what was happening as the first charge appeared on my card.
...  who needs to be afraid of Malware when Norton itself charges your credit card out of the blue. (lol)


The hilarious part is that customer support claimed that they sent me an email where I could have opted out a week before ... and guess what? My mailprovider had it tagged as spam. 
And really? Opt out of credit card charges that come out of the blue? With mere email as headsup? Charges for products I didn t even use for years anymore because I already installed the successor?
Isn't it that a customer should uh,... confirm a purchase before someone charges a card?  In the end they refunded the charge but the whole thing left me truly disgusted with Norton in general.