Author Topic: Solid-state drives  (Read 6353 times)

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Offline Nuke

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of course single core performance hit a brick wall, thats why we moved to multicore cpus. and thats why ~5 year old single core chips should run the game fairly well. if you own a 10 year old comp that you use as a primary computer, drop you ssd money on a new* cpu and a new* mobo and new* ram.

*relatively speaking
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 12:56:17 pm by Nuke »
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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Yeah, this is why I usually recommend light overclocking to people building new PCs, or at least to consider building in the capability. The CPU manufacturers don't seem to realize that yes, more cores are nice, but older programs that were already maxing a single core are going to suffer from lower overall clock speeds. It's especially noticeable in games with lots of physics calculations, furball missions in FS2 being one example. SoaSE in long games is another that comes to mind (fecking trade ships!).

Thankfully, even relatively inexpensive CPUs overclock like champs, and whatever else may be said about the UEFI BIOS'es, it makes the process a lot less intimidating for people that have never done it before.

Solid-state drives are getting less expensive and more reliable, CPUs are excellent these days, main storage drives are massive and cheap, power supplies are getting more efficient...it's a great time to be a PC enthusiast.  :D

 

Offline Luis Dias

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What we would need would be a clone of Valathil that was more interested in multithreading than graphics. That issue would be gone from all HLP discussions from then on.

 

Offline KyadCK

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I'm looking for a SSD myself. :nod:  Does OCZ make good drives?  I do like Samsung better, but their warranty is not what I would have expected.  They replace your broken drive with a recertified one.  What do you guys suggest? (120gb-128gb). :pimp:

OCZ has some good drives, but most are crap. Samsung's 830 series is excellent. And yes, everyone replaces your broken one with a re-certified.

Actually, the problem with single core performance seems to be caused by the chips reaching physical performance limits. I don't think it'll drop, but it certainly isn't gonna get much higher in the coming years. And yeah, 10 years is much too long. On a computer from 2002 you'd most likely do better just playing retail at max settings.

Almost every single desktop CPU on the market is capable of a 25% or higher performance boost from what is sold now. The limits are cooling, and people crying about power efficiency, not chip design. It's called Overclocking, and it's a real thing. All Intel "bridge" CPUs (Sandy and Ivy Bridge) and all AMD BD-based CPUs (Bulldozer, Trinity, Piledriver) are fully capable of 4.5Ghz with ease, many reaching 5Ghz, yet the highest stock-clocked CPU either of them sell is 4Ghz, and that's only a few chips, most being around 3.3 to 3.5Ghz.

This is all on reasonable cooling too, you do not need Phase, Chilled, DICE or LN2 to reach that, just an H60 or Antec 620 if your aim is 4.5. Heck, some Intel and AMD CPUs sell with AIO water coolers much like the H60 in the box.

Also, both sides of the fence are aiming at improving performance per watt, not just performance, because people want longer battery life in their laptops not performance they won't see. As it stands, CPUs have gotten "good enough" so Intel and AMD do not need to increase performance by 20% each year. A small boost and 10% more battery is "good enough" for them.

Intel has been holding a 5-10% increase in IPC every year while keeping their clock speed about the same. AMD just pulled a 7% IPC increase with PD, but comparing BD back any farther wouldn't help because of the massive design difference. Both next-gen CPUs are rumored to have the same increase again next year. They also pull this off while dropping power usage by a significant margin.

Yeah, this is why I usually recommend light overclocking to people building new PCs, or at least to consider building in the capability. The CPU manufacturers don't seem to realize that yes, more cores are nice, but older programs that were already maxing a single core are going to suffer from lower overall clock speeds. It's especially noticeable in games with lots of physics calculations, furball missions in FS2 being one example. SoaSE in long games is another that comes to mind (fecking trade ships!).

Thankfully, even relatively inexpensive CPUs overclock like champs, and whatever else may be said about the UEFI BIOS'es, it makes the process a lot less intimidating for people that have never done it before.

Solid-state drives are getting less expensive and more reliable, CPUs are excellent these days, main storage drives are massive and cheap, power supplies are getting more efficient...it's a great time to be a PC enthusiast.  :D

They realize it just fine. Thing is, most people don't care.

OCing can shoot power usage through the roof. Well beyond limitations set by the FCC or whoever handles those things. A FX-8350 at it's stock speed is already in the 125w segment. Care to guess where it would be if AMD decided to sell one as 4.8Ghz, which many of them achieve easily? A lot more then a 20% performance increase is worth. Especially for people who will not see any difference and just complain about the power bill.

Not that I'm against OCing mind you. I have my FX-8320 at 5Ghz right now. That 43% boost is very nice. But it's also not something that your average user will see. People who do need that kind of speed will buy it, or they will do what we do.


« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 02:36:16 pm by KyadCK »
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Offline Nuke

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i dont like to overclock new hardware beyond what overclocking settings reccomended by the manufacturer, i use turbo boost and i think my ram is overclocked by factory spec. but im not going to run beyond that until the hardware starts showing its age and several mobo bios revisions have come to pass. im pretty sure it decreases device life expectancy.

What we would need would be a clone of Valathil that was more interested in multithreading than graphics. That issue would be gone from all HLP discussions from then on.

i wonder if you can div up space into sectors find all the objects in each sector, then collision detect objects only with objects in its own and adjacent sectors. collision detection jobs are now isolated to a 3x3x3 sector reigion of space. you then divide sets of non-overlapping regions into multiple threads and collision detect them in parallel. for this to be effective you would need a lot of cores, my hyperthreaded i7 with 8 logical cores would be nice, but better would be to do it on the gpu as you could cd a lot more regions at once. downside is a lot of stuff gets collision detected twice, but the upside is a bunch get done all at the same time. this imposes some limits, like no object can be larger than a sector, but that should be manageable. but this belongs in another thread.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 02:49:03 pm by Nuke »
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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Offline Dragon

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Almost every single desktop CPU on the market is capable of a 25% or higher performance boost from what is sold now. The limits are cooling, and people crying about power efficiency, not chip design. It's called Overclocking, and it's a real thing. All Intel "bridge" CPUs (Sandy and Ivy Bridge) and all AMD BD-based CPUs (Bulldozer, Trinity, Piledriver) are fully capable of 4.5Ghz with ease, many reaching 5Ghz, yet the highest stock-clocked CPU either of them sell is 4Ghz, and that's only a few chips, most being around 3.3 to 3.5Ghz.

This is all on reasonable cooling too, you do not need Phase, Chilled, DICE or LN2 to reach that, just an H60 or Antec 620 if your aim is 4.5. Heck, some Intel and AMD CPUs sell with AIO water coolers much like the H60 in the box.
I know what overclocking is, I'm using it myself to get much more of my old-ish dualcore than I'm supposed to. Due to the way my computer is placed (almost no space behind the back) and the fact I never really needed such performance I'm not using a watercooler, but thanks for suggestions (would've been better if you made them before xmas though :)).

 

Offline KyadCK

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i dont like to overclock new hardware beyond what overclocking settings reccomended by the manufacturer, i use turbo boost and i think my ram is overclocked by factory spec. but im not going to run beyond that until the hardware starts showing its age and several mobo bios revisions have come to pass. im pretty sure it decreases device life expectancy.

Makes sense. It's a way to prolong having to upgrade for many people, and a sensible one at that. If you can get even one more year out of it, then it's worth it.

I know what overclocking is, I'm using it myself to get much more of my old-ish dualcore than I'm supposed to. Due to the way my computer is placed (almost no space behind the back) and the fact I never really needed such performance I'm not using a watercooler, but thanks for suggestions (would've been better if you made them before xmas though :)).

Well, no point in investing if you don't need it. Especially if you've got Intel, they change bracket dimensions every socket, so if you buy it now it might not work with your next one without new parts.
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Offline Bob-san

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i dont like to overclock new hardware beyond what overclocking settings reccomended by the manufacturer, i use turbo boost and i think my ram is overclocked by factory spec. but im not going to run beyond that until the hardware starts showing its age and several mobo bios revisions have come to pass. im pretty sure it decreases device life expectancy.

Makes sense. It's a way to prolong having to upgrade for many people, and a sensible one at that. If you can get even one more year out of it, then it's worth it.

I know what overclocking is, I'm using it myself to get much more of my old-ish dualcore than I'm supposed to. Due to the way my computer is placed (almost no space behind the back) and the fact I never really needed such performance I'm not using a watercooler, but thanks for suggestions (would've been better if you made them before xmas though :)).

Well, no point in investing if you don't need it. Especially if you've got Intel, they change bracket dimensions every socket, so if you buy it now it might not work with your next one without new parts.
No they haven't, not in recent years at least. Mainstream LGA1156 (1st gen Core i7) and now mainstream LGA1155 (2nd & 3rd gen Core i7) are using the same exact mounting systems. The high-end workstation stuff is changed--LGA771 was replaced by LGA1366, which was replaced by LGA2011. Those are significantly different sockets with significantly different technologies in play.
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