[Dragon]

Freelancer was very hyped and didn't quite meet what it was supposed to be.

From the videos I've seen, this game looks like it plays a lot like Freelancer. I was hoping for something a little more FS-like.

Freelancer was notoriously rushed by MS. You can see that very clearly, in fact, in the storyline. There's a certain lineal progression through the game, and the plot takes you through increasingly powerful groups, each with a new shipset and guns. Now, it ends at Rhineland's equipment (discounting the endgame), which is high-end, but which has at least 3 tiers above it available (Zoners, Outcasts and Corsairs all have better ships). The transition to the endgame is also quite abrupt. Freelancer was literally about 75% done when it was released, and compared to what we currently get with rushed games, it's pretty great. Star Citizen looks like Freelancer, but modernized and this time, without executives looming over their heads. As such, I'd expect it to be pretty awesome.

[Phantom Hoover]

There is nothing I find more suspicious than apologists for a shoddy game trying to shift all the blame onto the publisher for 'rushing' it.

[headdie]

There is nothing I find more suspicious than apologists for a shoddy game trying to shift all the blame onto the publisher for 'rushing' it.

by the time freelancer was released iirc MS actually owned the studio rather than just being the publisher.  Also when the publisher says we are only funding this development until date X then you have until day X to release otherwise you have no money

[Phantom Hoover]

Right, and I tend to have limited sympathy for game devs who sign up to deliver a game in time for a deadline, then overrun the deadline and produce a half-finished game.

[Molaris]

i was just curious to see if there was a possible move to there. I wouldn't wanna lose FS2O, but a newer engine that could support WAAAAAY more battle and data wise would be cool. Kinda forgot about Star Citizen for a second. I am eager for the multiple space sims on the way. hopefully there will be a revival of the genre. Thanks for the GREAT discussion all.

[Dragon]

There is nothing I find more suspicious than apologists for a shoddy game trying to shift all the blame onto the publisher for 'rushing' it.

Freelancer is by no means a "shoddy" game. It's pretty great. It's just that it's rather obviously "shaved down". The very layout of the game clearly indicates more content was intended. You can see that with that interface, galaxy and all they clearly intended to actually have everything they promised, and made provisions for it.

Right, and I tend to have limited sympathy for game devs who sign up to deliver a game in time for a deadline, then overrun the deadline and produce a half-finished game.

I don't think that those deadlines are set when you sign up. Almost certainly not the case here, remember that MS owned the studio, it wasn't just their publisher. If they were told "we're cutting dev time in half because we want a Xmas release", then they'd pretty much have to cut down on the content. If I were you, I'd be impressed at how solid FL managed to be despite it being rushed. Despite the deadline, the game didn't have glaring bugs, crashes nor obvious placeholders floating around. There are precisely two things that would tip you off that just how much they wanted to do: the ships and the very odd jump in story pacing near the end. With a more open game, you couldn't tell, but FL has a very lineal campaign with a noticeable layout and "tech progression" that makes this rather obvious.

[Deepstar]

Freelancer is a very special case i think. Maybe Microsoft' decision was the best for the game after all.

The game that was released as Freelancer, was indeed a cutted down version of the Freelancer that was planned.


You have to know, that Chris Roberts just wanted too much and simple misjudged his own and Digital Anvils skills and possibilities.
FreeLancer was planned for a 2001 release... and it was very far away from completion and the game consists of a hell lot of features... but most of them do not work as intended, were useless or simple not to be reasoned enough.
Chris Roberts asked for more money and for more time... but Microsoft said no, because they know, that the Freelancer he wanted to make, suffered already from gigantism and would take many more years... and much more dollars.
Maybe Freelancer were never released and would be a million grave or were released as an (un)playable mass of features that allows everything, but because of the very high development costs it would be never able to make profit, if they decided to continue it further.
But they decided to change the development process, that consist mainly of creation of a playable version that does not have all this not working and useless stuff.

Because i have not forgotten the Freelancer disaster, even i think sometimes, that i am one of very few that still remembers it, i am very sceptical about Star Citizen, because they are already many similarities to the development of FreeLancer...  in the end he want to make again a space game, that offers nearly everything you can imagine. Typical megalomania.


But in general i do not understand why everybody means, that Chris Roberts was the creator of Freelancer everyones played back then... he actually was not, he was creator of a complete different game that have the same name. Because Chris Roberts left Digital Anvil (or was forced to leave it) right after the decision to change the development process. He was not involved in the changes that led to the Freelancer we bought 11 years ago.
It is like if you would say, that 3D Realms is creator of Duke Nukem Forever everybody can buy in stores...

[Mikes]

Mhhh while I understand that there is doubt now that the project reached such magnitude ...

... they actually did commit/state several times that they do not classify any of the money coming in right now as profit, but rather additional funding to not just make the game, but also support it post release.

Profit is supposed to come only after release from game sales and expansions.

Also gotta keep in mind that Chris Roberts is not a nobody and, 2 years ago, really really did not start this for "the money". He already got boatloads of money and while Star Citizen now is successful beyond anyones wildest dreams ... you can betcha that 2 years ago, if he wanted to make money, he would not have gone and made a Space Sim, but rather another movie or whatever.

People tend to forget that the original plan was to raise 2 Million on Kickstarter to show the lined up investors that there was enough interest to make a Space Sim and fund the rest.
They were all incredulous as the funding slowly crept past 4, then 6 then 8 and even 10 million, tentatively stating that if they community raises at least 20 million themselves, they would not need any outside investors anymore and make this a fully community funded game.

It's pretty clear that guy is in it for realizing his very own dream that was foiled/declined by publishers twice before and I really hope he gets it done now.

Course you can always argue that people can change and go bad and they sure can .... but you know what? If you are doubting this one guy then I'd say crowdfunding just isn't for you at all.

And if you aren't getting at least somewhat giddy at the thought of a developer sticking it to the big publishers and finally making the project of his dreams on his own, then I would have to wonder whether "gaming in general" is still for you either.


Finally, he already was completely successful in putting Space Sims back in the game with this crowdfunding record.
So even if the game would fail ... you would still have to thank him for the plethora of Space Sims that are going to come out over the next couple of years. lol
(The only thing I truly dread is  the now pretty much inevitable and inevitably horribly crappy EA Wing Commander reboot ...   possibly on mobile LOL.)

[soilder198]

Their post-release plan is similar to the Guild Wars model, one big chunk of up-front cost with optional microtransactions.

I just read that Star Citizen will attempt to sustain the game through a persistent universe, similar to living world from Guild Wars 2. This is a big negative for me because living world was the reason I left Guild Wars.

Granted, these two games are entirely different, but if that is their plan, then they better make sure they do it right.

[Hades]

Also gotta keep in mind that Chris Roberts is not a nobody and, 2 years ago, really really did not start this for "the money". He already got boatloads of money and while Star Citizen now is successful beyond anyones wildest dreams ... you can betcha that 2 years ago, if he wanted to make money, he would not have gone and made a Space Sim, but rather another movie or whatever.

because his first movie was a total success in every sense of the word

[headdie]

Also gotta keep in mind that Chris Roberts is not a nobody and, 2 years ago, really really did not start this for "the money". He already got boatloads of money and while Star Citizen now is successful beyond anyones wildest dreams ... you can betcha that 2 years ago, if he wanted to make money, he would not have gone and made a Space Sim, but rather another movie or whatever.

because his first movie was a total success in every sense of the word

I watched that... I cringe every time i think about it, especially given some of the actors involved

[TrashMan]

What "Freelancer disaster"?

Freelancer was a good game, even in it's rushed state.