[Zarax]

well, there is a way that could work...
We could use the localized damage system that many FPS uses...
a few dozen lines of code should work...
It would be really simple to set something like a "damage multiplier" over subsystems.
Could be something like:

if (subsystem==engine)||(subsystem==reactor)||(watherever you want)
hitdamage=hitdamage*2;
If something like that can be done you could even implement various "armor" types.
I mean, anyone thinks that a fighter, with it's relatively tiny weapons can kill a destroyer?
Can you destroy a tank with a machinegun?
Just this way...

[##UnknownPlayer##]

That would probably be quite easy. What have you got in mind? As it is currently fighter weapons don't take out destroyers and such, only bombs do.

[Zarax]

They do, given enough time or a weakened destroyer...

[JC Denton]

*remembers the "Duct Tape on Trigger" problem with the Hades in ST*

Personally, I prefer the way they implemented it in Bridge Commander.  The engine calculates a "damage sphere" on the model, and the larger the sphere the greater the damage is.  And the more damage applied to a zone containing damage sphere, the larger it becomes, the more weathered the hull looks, etc.  The problem is that when a ship's been covered in them (even glancing hits that don't do enough to leave a mark) framerates tend to drop real quick.  So a damage threshhold would have to be implemented: a certain amount of damage must be applied in a certain span of time (i.e. 500 points in 3 seconds) before a damage sphere is placed.

It technically isn't "geo-modding", but if you, say, applied enough damage spheres to take an arm off a Sathanas, the arm would drift off like any other chunk of debris.  In Bridge Commander there are three critical subsystems: Bridge, Warp Core, Hull.  If any one hits zero, the ship is destroyed.  So for FS, a Command Deck, Power Core, Hull setup would be the equivalent.  And as long as the three components are together on the same chunk of starship, the thing is still functional.  Naturally, if anything gets separated from these three, it becomes destroyed and behaves like said Sathanas arm.

This allows for a nice damage effect, but most importantly modelers won't have to make the damage LODs anymore because the ships in dying could have multiple large damage spheres randomly applied to core sections that would break the ship apart and leave it burned to a cinder.  Then we tell the engine to save the coordinates of the blasted sections and burn marks, remove the damage spheres, and (hopefully) avoid the framerate penalty BC suffers when you're in a ships graveyard.

Alright, I'm done.  Feel free to flame me for this.

[Rampage]

Before you guys continue arguing, keep in mind that models in 3D action games have skeletons, which incorporates moving. (and slicing the model in half, etc.)  What would be a start in skeletoning a model would be the Sathanas by allowing its claws to move back and forth.  (A new world of rotation.)

[Star Dragon]

Suggestion, I would very much like to fly into a large ship and blast it from the inside of the hole just made by a big weapon... Or simply as a tactical manuver fly all the way to the other side evading other fighters, can this be done?

[LtNarol]

Originally posted by Star Dragon
Suggestion, I would very much like to fly into a large ship and blast it from the inside of the hole just made by a big weapon... Or simply as a tactical manuver fly all the way to the other side evading other fighters, can this be done?

not without rebuilding the entire engine

[Raven2001]

So much stuff... and complex... AHHHH!!!! SCREW GEO-MOD!!!!

[Galemp]

Originally posted by JC Denton
In Bridge Commander there are three critical subsystems: Bridge, Warp Core, Hull.  If any one hits zero, the ship is destroyed.  So for FS, a Command Deck, Power Core, Hull setup would be the equivalent.  And as long as the three components are together on the same chunk of starship, the thing is still functional.  Naturally, if anything gets separated from these three, it becomes destroyed and behaves like said Sathanas arm.

Sounds like my original idea- have several critical points in the model. If any one point gets separated from the others the ship is dead. Thus, you can blow a hole through the Colossus and it'll be fine, but cut the head off with lots of slashers and it's gone. I like the BC idea, though.

Skeletal spaceships? Full hulled animations? Very Shivan to have pulsing, contorting bits and pieces.

Geo-modding like this is probably possible, since we are goemodding objects and not the environment. Code-wise, it's easier to take chunks off a monster running at you than it is for the wall behind it.

[LtNarol]

I dont think the bridge should be vital to a ship's survival, i mean, you lose coordination but the ship itself should still be able to run and you can set up backup bridges just about anywhere on the ship.  I do agree on the Reactor Core and Hull though.

[penguin]

Originally posted by LtNarol
I dont think the bridge should be vital to a ship's survival, i mean, you lose coordination but the ship itself should still be able to run and you can set up backup bridges just about anywhere on the ship.  I do agree on the Reactor Core and Hull though.

Yeah, the reactor core even has a precedent -- I'm sure many of you remember a ship called the SD Lucifer

But obviously this did not require engine changes -- it was all done with SEXPs

[LtNarol]

*gives penguin a cookie*

[KARMA]

i have a nice idea that may solve this question:

actually two ways of implementing a different way of counting damages have been proposed:
1_the "critical" subobject(s)
2_hits on different subobjects produce different damage on ships hull

about the first solution, instead of deciding now what subobjects will be critical, we may use the ships.tbl.
in the code should be added the possibility to destroy a ship by blowing its "core(s)", an algoritm like(i'm not a programmer so not sure it is the best way), if subobjectxx=1(critical) and subobjectxx's hp=0 then ships hull=0
to decide if subobjectxx has value 1 instead of 0 there comes the table, with a new string, like for example:
critical="subobject01, subobjetc02, ... ", the program will assin value "1" to all the specified subobjects
in this way the modders can freely decide what subobjetcs will be critical, so for example:
critical=" engine, bridge"
i will have 3 critical subobjects: bridge, engines and hull, hull is always present even if not specified: in this way if you leave it blank (critical=" ") or if the string is not present at all destroying the hull will be the only way to destroy the ship
in this way the compatibility with older ships/tables will be saved
the only problem that we must solve is what happen if there are multiple critical subobjects: the ship will explode if any of the cores is detroyed or will explode only if all of the cores are destroyed? i vote for second solution

the other propose was the damage system and i think that both of proposes can exist at the same time:
something like, in ships.tbl when you set the hp of the single subobjects you set a "ratio", an hit on this subobject will generate a proportional damage at the general hull, if no ratio is specified the ratio is 1 (and compatibility is already saved), in this way we will be able to decide if a subobject is "more vital" than others and modders will be able to set up more complex strategic situation or even build their mods with their own " damage style"

[Galemp]

Just remember, we can't have the engines be a critical subsystem. Otherwise it would be impossible to disable it.
Why not have the Hull be the only critical subsystem, but give the other subsystems hard-coded in-game effects? And we add a Reactor subsystem (or multiple reactors) to each ship. We already know what effects subsystems have on fighters, so here we go with the larger ships:
Engines- Ship cannot move.
Weapons- Turret fire is slower and lasers are less accurate.
Navigation- Ship cannot warp, even with SEXPs. (Break-warp)
Sensors- Cannot shoot down bombs, AAA fire is inaccurate.
Communications- Fighters will not protect ship. (AI-ignore)
Reactor- Engines disable and all systems shut down. (Turret-lock-all)

So we can have derelicts! An incentive for pinpoint bombing, followed by boarding parties or heavy beam fire. The code for the weapons and engines is already there, of course. If we want to keep a ship with multiple engines from escaping, we can go after the Nav to start with. Most of these can be done with sexps, but having them hard-coded would be cool.

[Star Dragon]

GE that's a good idea, much the way it is now no? However I think that if fighters are already protecting the target killing the com system won't make them ignore you. How about not being able to change current orders for their side or from that point on calling for reinforcements , ect...

Remember "The Last Star Fighter"? They took out the com antenna so the escorts didn't know about the GunStar until it was eating them up! Damn I'd like to see a GunStar model (I'd like to fly it even more!)