Author Topic: Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals  (Read 8244 times)

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Offline DTP

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


Multiple-shields wouldn't work, since the main counter to BH-shielding is spraying the ship with many small laser beams, forcing the BH to travel from one area to  another, and then sneaking in a few full-power shots somewhere the BH can't reach/reposition to in time.

Also, I didn't mean that it would actually be a beam, making fighters explode - give me a little credit. :doubt: I equated it to the "interception" behavior of flak, laser, and AAA beam turrets towards incoming bombs.


What about the Error factor :).

Doval basal gets dizzy, by something, doval projects black hole to bridge, ups there half the command got squashed/or sucked away.

Anyway, you will never get the full effect of being able to say, hey this ship has 50 doval basals, because then you would have to make these target incoming fire, and there are alot of laser shots out there. "CPU TIME", BUT what you could do without adding an extra shield was to invent a subsystem, that played ANI file when hit. This subsystem could be an invisible when notplaying projected Polygon, that could take special damage, not transfered to the main hull. the special damage would auto regenrate according to the ships power out-put. which would make no sense, when we think of the doval as a creature, rather than a system. but it would be a way to let the ship designer determine the Strength of the BH shields.
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Offline Sandwich

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Ok, I don't get it. Has no one seen capital ships flak turrets blast away at incoming bombs?? The code to intercept incoming weapons is already there.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 
Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Dang, it seems I overdid it, so everyone seemed to misunderstand me. :o
Time for damage control.
Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
Hmmm try reading the series if you would like to understand the concept

I will if I ever want to read SW fantasy novels. :rolleyes: The concept has already been explained and understood in this thread.
Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
But if you want hard science to prove everything in fiction ... you must not play many games ;) Especially since what .... 99% of our information on Blackholes is just conceptual.

Where did I ever say that? I don't want it to prove fiction! And I do enjoy soft scifi too. (Where did you get that 99% figure? Perhaps a slight exaggeration?

Sandwich quoted Arthur C. Clarke... I know that quote too. But, you know, the catch in this case was that actual black holes are far more wondrous than these lukewarm fictional ones... That's why I made that first reply. :lol:

Stryke: I hope this cleared things up. I'm not one of those who dismiss good entertainment just because they aren't 'hard scifi', otherwise I couldn't even play FS2!
The nick is not a typo, it's a pun.

 
Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Ok, I don't get it. Has no one seen capital ships flak turrets blast away at incoming bombs?? The code to intercept incoming weapons is already there.

They can target bombs, yes... But how about primary weapons fire? This is something we need to be able to create B5-style interceptors... I might make a thread for this once I get some more info for it.
The nick is not a typo, it's a pun.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Quote
Originally posted by Terorist

They can target bombs, yes... But how about primary weapons fire?


*deep, longsuffering sigh*

...Bringing us back to the whole reason I posted this in the Source Code Forum in the first place!
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 
Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
*deep, longsuffering sigh*

No need to sigh. That's the very same reason I asked (in the thread behind that link I posted) about interceptors here instead of TBP forums. :doubt: What I mean by "how about", is in the lines of "How are primary weapon shots handled, is teaching AI to target them a quick, clean and neat hack or a more demanding, harder feat?"
The nick is not a typo, it's a pun.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Quote
Originally posted by Terorist

No need to sigh. That's the very same reason I asked (in the thread behind that link I posted) about interceptors here instead of TBP forums. :doubt: What I mean by "how about", is in the lines of "How are primary weapon shots handled, is teaching AI to target them a quick, clean and neat hack or a more demanding, harder feat?"


A good question, which I'd also like to know the answer to. I ain't by any means a coder, you see.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline DTP

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
Ok, I don't get it. Has no one seen capital ships flak turrets blast away at incoming bombs?? The code to intercept incoming weapons is already there.


you forgot lasers.

All laser shots are not targeted, while their collision is checked however for obvious reasons.

scenario

20 fighters attack a doval shielded ship
and starts to fire lasers/blasters.

they each fire 4 shots(x-wing)pr 500 milisecond , that would be 80 shots to calculate. add to that, all the shots that are fired in beetween.such a calculation should be taken when the lasers are fired. 20 ships continiung holding down the trigger button would mean you got 20*4*8(2 secs) 800 objects to check for + all missiles,+ fire from capital ship turrets.

you see, the numbers will grow quick.
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Offline Shrike

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Just steal some Macross pin point barriers.... ;)
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Quote
Originally posted by DTP


you forgot lasers.

All laser shots are not targeted, while their collision is checked however for obvious reasons.


I most emphatically did not forget lasers! I know lasers aren't targeted. However, because bombs are, I thought that perhaps some people could play around with this thing we have called "Source Code", and implement laser/beam targeting with the same code that is already in place for bomb targeting. What a novel idea, eh? Wow - a source code change! :rolleyes:

Sorry about getting all riled up, but it feels like I've been explaining the same point over and over ad nausea. I'm better now. Really. :nervous:
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline KARMA

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
so you mean something like a flak cannon that fires something like black holes against any threat to the ship
you were clear sandwich, but every aspect of an idea have to be analized, to see what can be done and what is missing
personally i think that a shield could still be a good way: althought it is the most distant from what you'd like to have, it is the easyer, since shields actually does intercept both wareheads and energy weapons, and i suspect that a system to preview what laser shots are directed to a ship or not could be performance hitter.
Elseway you will have to take care of the energy weapons somehow.. probably limiting the number of calculations, like taking care only of beams (that will be the mega lasers in SW like the death stars' lasers and ignoring the other lasers), or maybe considering if the attacker is targeting or not the ship

And i consider interesting for everyone  the idea of a turrett/cannon capabe of firing small black holes...this could be used in a lot of situations.....

 

Offline Sandwich

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Exactly - it's the analyzing I wanted to get done here. Here's how I see it:

Targeting:
1) Numerous lasers/beams/missiles/bombs fired at target.
2) Target registers incoming fire (except weapons flagged with special "force-guided" flag, which are ignored).
3) Target ranks incoming weapons that are within 300 meters of the target.
4) Target assigns threat index to all weapons fire within 300m by sorting according to heaviest damage potential, in descending order.
5) Target "opens fire" with BH turret* on highest ranking weapon, while re-evaluating threat index every second. Note that special attention should be given to beam fire, which traverses those 300m instantly. Beam fire should be intercepted only after it has already struck the target, on the next index reevaluation, to simulate the disadvantages of needing to predict weapons fire as opposed to all-around regular shield coverage.
6) In addition to threat index reevaluation (which is primarily for incoming weapons that pass the 300 meter range), the target automatically shifts BH aim to next highest weapon in threat index when currently targeted weapon is removed from the equation - whether that removal is by hitting an obstruction (colliding with a fighter), being shot down (bomb interception), or being "sucked up" by the BH itself.

Black Hole Operation:

1) A turret-system combo (takes energy levels from engine (! See point 8) system) with 360 degree field of fire.
2) Continuous-fire, invisible "beam", with a black spot hit/impact effect.
3) Like laser weapons generate local colored lighting, the BH hit effect would generate a local negative light effect.
4) Here's the tricky part: The BH "beam" must not collide with the originating ship's hull, but with the shield mesh. This will place the apparent black hole, and thus the interception points, at any location a bit out from the ship hull - right where the shield mesh is.
5) Shield meshes on Vong ships should not affect weapons fire by themselves, they are there solely to provide the BH beam something to impact against.
6) BH beam range limit must be essentially unlimited, to allow targeting of any incoming weapons fire even if on opposite side of ship, but the effective range must stop at the shields.
7) Energy level of any given dovin basal projector should not affect its energy absorption level capabilities. In other words, it takes the same amount of energy to halt a second of subach shots as it does a second of heavy beam fire - it is the act of generating and maintaining the black hole that takes up energy, not how much energy it is swallowing up.
8) What does tax the energy level is moving a BH to different targets, as well as maneuvering the ship. With lowering energy levels, a ship should either maneuver more sluggishly, or intercept weapons fire slower. We need a set-dovin-shield-priority sexp, where you set a number from 0 (all energy goes to engines, with shields receiving the surplus) to 10 (all needed energy goes to shielding, with surplus going to engines), with the default being set in the tables.
9) When less energy than required is allocated to the shields, BH turrets hit effects physically shrink in size, and repositioning black holes takes longer.

Random Thoughts:

- If laser, beam and missile weapons need to have a "destroyable" flag set, like the bomb has, then it should be modified to be destroyable only by BH weapons - no sense in allowing capital ship beams to be "shot down" by Subach fire. ;)
- The dovin basal shield-stripping abilities can be simulated by a completely separate weapon system, 100% accurate invisible beam that is devastating to shields, but has no effect on hull. However, this weapon system should be a major energy drain on the originating ship.



Ugh. :p
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline J.F.K.

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Sandwich, though I don't understand the discussion on a level high enough to do much more than criticise it for being supposedly 'ridiculous' (then again, sound effects in space are ridiculous, right?), I compliment you for your commitment to this idea. The Australian government could learn a few valuable lessons from people like you, Sandwich. :yes:
.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
At this point, I think the current Australian government could learn a lot from a sideshow clown. :doubt:
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Offline Sandwich

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Brainstorm: Star Wars Dovin Basals
Quote
Originally posted by J.F.K.
...I compliment you for your commitment to this idea.
\


Heh - thanks. I just know that if I don't set down a certain amount of groundwork, no one will. And I'd absolutely love it if we could produce a full-fledged Star Wars Total Conversion - it's one project I'm behind 101%. :yes:

Quote
Originally posted by Black Wolf
At this point, I think the current Australian government could learn a lot from a sideshow clown. :doubt:


Hey! Most sideshow clown have degrees in quantum physics and chaos theory, I'll have you know!

:nervous:

Anyway, back to topic... any coders want to take a look at the things I've written out already and comment?
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

  

Offline terren

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I looked at the "force-powered" tag Idea, and I though to my self.  'Hey what if there was a weapon tag for a stelth weapon?  something the AI would just not see.'

and I thought of the things I could do with it.  stelth bombs, stelth missles, stelth cannons for stelth ships,  stelth and eggs with out too much stelth in it.
:wink:
or if you dont like stelth we have breathmints...

also the matrix layered shields look realy realy cool. [rant]
especaly for capships, do we have shields for capships already? It's not in the Read me for the new version.  hey, anyone have a readme for ALL the versions?? youknow for people who just found this site a month ago, and want  to know what they can and cannot do with the new toys?[/rant]  

sorry about the ranting, I just had a lot to say....
I realy need a comprehensive readme file
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