Author Topic: Official Request to all SCP-Members  (Read 2824 times)

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Offline Starman01

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    • Wing Commander Saga
Official Request to all SCP-Members
Hello,

because of the huge progress the WC-Saga-Mod has made within the last few month, we are now beginning to make the final approach for an official demo-release and hopefully the main-release at the fall of this year (maybe some months later, I personally see it a little less optimistic, there is still so much to do).

But in order to do so, we are in desperate need of some code-changes. I posted our wishes a few times now, but mostly the topics went to quickly another way, so this is why I start this topic here. I would really appreciate if nothing unrelated to this topic will be posted here (in other words, no SPAM please :) )

If we want to bring this project to a good end, we had to know on which code-changes we can count, and which we must spare or try to simulate another way, so I hope you can give us some clear "Yes and No's".

Also I don't want to hire away members of the SCP-Team, but If someone wants to join our team to take care of the development of our main.exe in conjunction with the official SCP-Exe, we would be happy to welcome him.

Being a Team-Member gives you the advantage of getting full access to our database-server and of course the internal forum, so you can check out everything with the real Wing-Commander-Stuff (but of course everything must be kept within the internal, we don't want any more leaks on our stuff). If you have experience in coding the FS-Source-Code and are interested to join our course, pls contact ME or TOLWYN.

Here are our needs, in the order of what is needed most in the first place:


1) Autopilot, for proper use it has 4 vital things missing.

a) A sexpression, which can controll the time-compression, best way would be, that it slows down in one or two steps, and not jump von 64x to 1x (but even this would be enough)

b) A "Max-Radar-Range" which can be set as a flag in the launcher, so that the "infintive radar" is only the value you have set.

c) A new Key-Boundle, best would be ALT-A, which can be used a few time within the mission to activate the autopilot-Sexpression. Currently I'm using the numbers 1 to 4, but they are used in multi-player and can only be used once in a mission (but this is maybe just a error in my scripts) and I need five navpoints.

d) Also a small problem, when you fly to the navpoint via autopilot (means your fighter is controlled by the AI), you cannot target anything (which is actually not bad), but you can't see the distance to the Nav-Point either. Maybe some Lead-Indicator or something could solve this problem). Showing of the decreasing distance would be good.

Asking for a single "autopilot"-sexpression, which will fly to the selected navpoint, activates and deactivates the time-warp and form your wingmen (or let the player form on the leader) would be to much to ask I guess :) )


2) Weapons.tbl should get a "max.range"-value for missile weapons. Problems can be handled more or less with the live-time of the missile, but if it is not to difficult ....Problem is, that AI-Fighters fire their missile from  a very far distance, depending on the lifetime of the missiles. Also a change of the missile-fire-behaviour of AI-ships would be wise.


3) Phreaks very cool stealth-modus he once developed, but should be possible to control over sexpression and of course for AI-Fighers as well (and for the player pressing a specific button).


4) Taunt enemy. Just for fun, but would be perfect, when a taunted fighter automatically drops his target and attack you (after you taunted him 2 or 3 times).


5) Death screams of enemies (not all, only a few of them, maybe activated in FRED). When fredding a death-scream in a  mission,  you have to set it to guardian, then when it's hull is 1% send the message, and then selfdestruct  him, that's the best way IMO. But the problem is, while the death-message is sended, the enemy is fully functional and invulnerable.

When I say, send message "when destroyed", the message can only be  sended by "command" or  something, but not by the destroyed fighter, and I need these comm-brackets around the target to make it realistic. Some Fighters are exploding instantly, but others are rotating and braking apart, for these the death-scream would be perfect.


6) Every shockwave (except missiles perhaps) should effect the player with the EMP-Effect, the nearer you are, the harder the effect. Shouldn't be to difficult, because the shockwave from the emp-missile already has that effekt. Maybe it can be edited to the tbl, if a shockwave will have an emp-effect or not.


7) Every time a capship explodes (in the same moment when it brakes apart and the shockwave starts generating) there should be a bright flash apear on the screen (maybe like the sun-flare). Best would be, if the strongness of the effect depends on how your  view-angle is. Extrem bright when facing the exploding ship, and rather weak when you turn away about 180 degree (I always liked that in the WC-Games:) )


8) A different way to add subobjekt to a modelfile, which are visible and destroyable, but not targetable. This is needed for parked fighters inside a carriers hangarbay. If you build them as normal subobjects, you can target them, and even worse, you can still target them when they are destroyed and didn't exist anymore. (Maybe this could also be achived by mutliple docking-points, but I would prefer the other solution). Turrest are handeld a little different, they cannot be targeted after destruction, maybe it would be enough if you can target the parked fighters when still alive, but not anymore when destroyed, but not targetable would be better).
Maybe the turret-way can be adapted to subobjects.

Fred-Changes (Important).

9) Most of our carriers have two fighterbays, foreward and back. Forward for launch, back for landing. We need a addon in FRED, which let you select the subsystem , from which a wing/fighter should launch or land. Earlier I thought, I can achive this using waypoints, but it isn't working every time. The AI makes what it wants to, same goes for launching, it is not always using the first path (just an Idea, but sometimes it seems, that the game didn't say "bay01" is now free again. Can it be, that there is somesort of "time-amount", how long a path is busy after usage ? )


10) We need a "fire missile-turret" sexpression. Same as the "fire beam", which works fine for primaries, but not for secondary weapons. Maybe "fire beam" can be upgraded.


11) FRED-Limits for SEXP-Operators must be bumped up again.


12) The "player-use-ai"-SEXP still allows the player to make moves. Is it possible to lock the controll of the fighter 100 % ?


Thanks for your time !

Best regards

Starman©

P.S. My Team-Mates may correct me, If I had forgotten something.
And sorry for this veeery long post :D
« Last Edit: June 20, 2004, 08:40:52 am by 1072 »
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Official Request to all SCP-Members
Um... :wtf:

Are you really in desperate need of all this stuff?  You're asking for several major changes, and quite a few minor ones.  I can tell you right now that you probably won't get the majority of these requests in the near future, unless someone from WCSaga joins the SCP team.

I'd strongly advise you to make the most of what you have.  I'll try to evaluate each specific request here:
Quote
1) Autopilot
There's a player-use-ai sexp that should satisfy this, for the most part.  The sexps for controlling time compression, max radar range, and ship targeting are all simple enough that they could probably be done quickly.  However, adding new keys is quite difficult.  Stick to using the numbers 1-4, and use key-reset so that you can use them more than once.

Kazan was working on a full-featured WC-style autopilot system, but I wouldn't count on it being done soon.
Quote
2) Weapons.tbl should get a "max.range"-value for missile weapons.
This should be done through missile speed and lifetime.  If you need the AI to behave a certain way, create duplicate weapons with the appropriate changes... see Cyclops and Cyclops#Short.
Quote
Also a change of the missile-fire-behaviour of AI-ships would be wise.
No.
Quote
3) Phreaks very cool stealth-modus he once developed, but should be possible to control over sexpression and of course for AI-Fighers as well (and for the player pressing a specific button).
Phreak is working on this.
Quote
4) Taunt enemy. Just for fun, but would be perfect, when a taunted fighter automatically drops his target and attack you (after you taunted him 2 or 3 times).
Um... no.  Too much work for such a small feature.
Quote
5) Death screams of enemies (not all, only a few of them, maybe activated in FRED)
One of us could add a flag to allow enemy wingmen to broadcast messages, but I'm not sure offhand how much work this would require.  Stick to sexps for the time being.
Quote
6) Every shockwave (except missiles perhaps) should effect the player with the EMP-Effect, the nearer you are, the harder the effect.
Then add EMP effects to your weapons.  This doesn't require a code change.
Quote
7) Every time a capship explodes (in the same moment when it brakes apart and the shockwave starts generating) there should be a bright flash apear on the screen (maybe like the sun-flare)
Not sure about this.  Don't depend on it.
Quote
8) A different way to add subobjekt to a modelfile, which are visible and destroyable, but not targetable.
Tricky.  And this would require a lot of work.  Don't depend on this one either.
Quote
9) Most of our carriers have two fighterbays, foreward and back. Forward for launch, back for landing. We need a addon in FRED, which let you select the subsystem , from which a wing/fighter should launch or land.
This is useful, and something I want to look at.  It's likely someone will do this soon.
Quote
10) We need a "fire missile-turret" sexpression. Same as the "fire beam", which works fine for primaries, but not for secondary weapons.
Probably doable.
Quote
11) FRED-Limits for SEXP-Operators must be bumped up again.
They've already been bumped by one-third!  Try your missions again and figure out how to use fewer sexps.  Use send-message-list and so forth.
Quote
12) The "player-use-ai"-SEXP still allows the player to make moves. Is it possible to lock the controll of the fighter 100 % ?
Not currently.

Many of your sexps can probably be done, and probably a small number of other things (especially deciding which fighterbay is used for entry/exit), but a lot of your other requests are cosmetic or require substantial amount of work.  Sorry to be so blunt, but you're better off focusing on one or two high-priority requests (like deciding the fighter bay) and making do without the rest.

 

Offline Starman01

  • 213
  • Mechwarrior
    • Wing Commander Saga
Sorry, I know I (we) ask for much, but I had hoped that most of this
are only minor changes.

About the arguments above:

1) I already use the player-use-ai-thing, the additional features are
just for convinience, but the sexp-controlled time-compression is a
must for proper autopilot function
. I hope you can do something
here too.

About the other autopilot-things. There was once a test-build, which
had this "max-radar-range-flag" included (I think Kazan did this, not
sure though) so I hope this can be adapted.

About the Key-Press, I assumed that there must be a way to use a key
more often, I have to check for this "key-reset"-thing. I still have the
problem that I would like to use 5 Navpoints, but only the numbers
1-4 are available ( I have to use some logic in the system for the
player, currently I active NAV 5 using "SHift-1", and that's kinda
strange.) Also this could become a problem with multiplayer, but
I have no Idea how advanced the MP-Prozess is, and there is no
plan making the WC-Saga a MP-Game, at least not AFAIK.

Maybe I can bind a key in the options to an unused one, and create
so a free key for the autopilot. Have to test this.

The "distance-to-navpoint" can be spared too I guess.

5) About the death-screams, I made a new mission and added some
death-scream with my event-way, but suddenly those two fighters
send standard-FS2-wingmen death-screams. I'm currently not sure
why, but it must have something to do with the fact, that they are
of the "unknown ship"-fraction when arrive, and I change their IFF
to "hostile" later on. In this case the death-screams seems to be bound
to the message.tbl, and I think I read something about wishes to
bump the limit of this tbl. This could be something to achive this
feature. (If I'm not mistaken, this was also WC-Saga and was
done by Tolwyn :) )

6) You misunderstood the shockwave thing. I don't want the missile-
shockwaves generate a EMP-Effect, I want the Capship-Explosion-Shockwave
do it. I just thought, that it could be rather easy, because the shockwave
of the EMP-Missile do this already, maybe it can be copied.

7) Well, about the explosion-flash, that's a little hard, I had hoped
that it was rather simple to achive. You sure, you can't check on this
? This is defintly something, that would not only be an addition for
WC-Saga, but is a more realistic explosion effect IMO.

11) I already did this, but I'm still out of sexpression-trees. I'm not
fully sure why, but I have now about 90 messages and only
70 events (after adding the most messages into messages-lists,
where it was possible)

About the other things, I'm sure we can spare the following :

2) weapons.tbl
4) taunt enemy
5) death-screams

8) I thought so that this could be a really big problem. Hard to
spare, but as you said, we must focuse on the necessary.

BTW, I noticed that you changed the title of this post, I hope it
has not created any misunderstandings. :nervous:

And if you (or some of your collegues) can really make some of the
sexp-changes, then thanks very much in advance.

Regards

Starman©
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 10:37:04 am by 1072 »
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline Goober5000

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About changing the title of the thread: I just didn't want the word "official" in the title, because people might think it's something that the SCP has decided to do as a matter of official business.

As for the rest of them, many of the sexps and mission flags you proposed are certainly possible.  We'll do what we can.

 

Offline Bobboau

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I.d like to do 7 once I get my current mess sorted out
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Offline Tolwyn

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yes, I have asked about bumping message.tbl limit over 6 months ago... :nervous:  This is surely doable and it was bumped in the Inferno build, if I am informed correctly ;)
Wing Commander Saga: A Legend Is Reborn | WingCenter
 
Tolwyn’s reputation for risk taking with other people’s lives was considered  to understate the facts. The admiral’s willingness to sacrifice anyone or anything to achieve his objectives had long been lauded in the popular press. He was “the man who got things done”.- Colonel Blair

No errors, no random CTDs, just pure fun and proof of why getting hit with missiles is a bad thing.
-WC Saga's beta tester


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Offline Starman01

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Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
As for the rest of them, many of the sexps and mission flags you proposed are certainly possible.  We'll do what we can.


Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
I.d like to do 7 once I get my current mess sorted out


That would be great. I will assist you guys in any way I can. Just
contact me, when you are going to start it.
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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Quote
Originally posted by Tolwyn
yes, I have asked about bumping message.tbl limit over 6 months ago... :nervous:  This is surely doable and it was bumped in the Inferno build, if I am informed correctly ;)


What part do you need bumped? I already bumped one part in my FnF build.

Quote
11) I already did this, but I'm still out of sexpression-trees. I'm not
fully sure why, but I have now about 90 messages and only
70 events (after adding the most messages into messages-lists,
where it was possible)


Are you absolutely *sure* that you can't do with the current limit, and that is indeed the problem? (See the FnF build)
-C

 

Offline Starman01

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Well, currently I can live with the sexp-limit. I have mangaged to
finish that uber-mission by updating the events a little more ,
and I deleted a few lines from the script.

If there are no more missions like this, I guess It can stay that way.
(unfortunately we have a very high amount of mission-chatter :) )

I started already the new mission, and it will be hard again to stay
below the limit. I will post another reply, if it will be necessary.

But what's the FnF-Build ?
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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The FnF build, AKA Fred 'n FS: This one

How about the message.tbl limit...do you need the number of personas bumped? I checked and that was the part that was bumped for Inferno.
-C

 

Offline Tolwyn

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Quote
Originally posted by WMCoolmon
How about the message.tbl limit...do you need the number of personas bumped? I checked and that was the part that was bumped for Inferno.


Exactly, but as you said, Inferno build breaked multi player. :(
Wing Commander Saga: A Legend Is Reborn | WingCenter
 
Tolwyn’s reputation for risk taking with other people’s lives was considered  to understate the facts. The admiral’s willingness to sacrifice anyone or anything to achieve his objectives had long been lauded in the popular press. He was “the man who got things done”.- Colonel Blair

No errors, no random CTDs, just pure fun and proof of why getting hit with missiles is a bad thing.
-WC Saga's beta tester


Report Wing Commander Saga bugs with Mantis

 

Offline Kazan

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i'm working on autopilto, as I can - last time i compiled a build with it some crashing problems cropped up
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Offline Tolwyn

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Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
i'm working on autopilto, as I can - last time i compiled a build with it some crashing problems cropped up


need a hand with testing? ;) I am happy to give it a go :D
Wing Commander Saga: A Legend Is Reborn | WingCenter
 
Tolwyn’s reputation for risk taking with other people’s lives was considered  to understate the facts. The admiral’s willingness to sacrifice anyone or anything to achieve his objectives had long been lauded in the popular press. He was “the man who got things done”.- Colonel Blair

No errors, no random CTDs, just pure fun and proof of why getting hit with missiles is a bad thing.
-WC Saga's beta tester


Report Wing Commander Saga bugs with Mantis

 

Offline Nico

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I found taunt to be really useful, actually. target all those pesky bombers going after that frail cruiser you're supposed to protect, and then it becomes so much easier :p
SCREW CANON!

 

Offline Starman01

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@Kazan : If it is any help for you, the first two demo-missions are
up with autopilot included (a alittle upgraded sexpression like in your
first test-mission). You can find them in the database.
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

 

Offline Starman01

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Quote
Originally posted by Tolwyn
Exactly, but as you said, Inferno build breaked multi player. :(


Does that border us ? I didn't thought we gonna build a MP-Version,
this will make all much more complicate and more unstable.
MECHCOMMANDER OMNITECH

9 out of 10 voices in my head always tell me that I'm not insane. The 10th is only humming the melody of TETRIS.

  

Offline Tolwyn

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Quote
Originally posted by Starman01


Does that border us ? I didn't thought we gonna build a MP-Version,
this will make all much more complicate and more unstable.


yes, it does.

as you know single player and multi player aren't connected together. We will have to create our own multiplayer missions though.
Wing Commander Saga: A Legend Is Reborn | WingCenter
 
Tolwyn’s reputation for risk taking with other people’s lives was considered  to understate the facts. The admiral’s willingness to sacrifice anyone or anything to achieve his objectives had long been lauded in the popular press. He was “the man who got things done”.- Colonel Blair

No errors, no random CTDs, just pure fun and proof of why getting hit with missiles is a bad thing.
-WC Saga's beta tester


Report Wing Commander Saga bugs with Mantis