[Singh]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
I don't believe each fleet has just one destroyer - probably something like a Hecate as the command ship and then maybe one or two Orions for big engagements. Do we know if the Carthage part of the 3rd Fleet?

I dont think so; but when dealing with the Shivans, I'd think that the GTVA would deploy as many ships as possible. It would depend directly on the system's importance. Some may have 2 or 3 destroyers with a single acting in command, whilst others would only have a fleet of small ships supported by an Arcadia command. Depends on need I think.

[magatsu1]

here's ont that'll bug ya: was the Messana part of 3rd fleet ? or just assisting the evacuation ?

[Ford Prefect]

I always assumed that the terms 'fleet' and 'battle group' were interchangeable, and Admiral Khafre just happened to use one instead of the other.

As for fleet size, I think it probably varies depending on the economic, political, or strategic importance of the fleet's home system. Also don't forget that there may be unattached ships. I think it's safe to assume that the GTD Krios and the GTD Soyokaze (sp?) didn't have fleet attachments.

As for the fuel question, here's something that's always bugged me: Where the bloody hell is the Pegasus' power source? The thing is a paper airplane; it can't exist.

[Airborne]

Originally posted by Ace
To be much more specific:
Fusion reactors.

Kind of like in Spiderman 2.

[jdjtcagle]

Originally posted by SadisticSid
I don't believe each fleet has just one destroyer - probably something like a Hecate as the command ship and then maybe one or two Orions for big engagements. Do we know if the Carthage part of the 3rd Fleet?

I actually thought the same

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
I always assumed that the terms 'fleet' and 'battle group' were interchangeable, and Admiral Khafre just happened to use one instead of the other.

Could be but I've only heard Battle Group used for Vasudans and Fleet for humans so there could be more to it than that.

Admittedly though the ships with the Colossus were refered to as it's Battle Group.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Setekh
Striker, there's plenty of good information on the FS Universal Reference Project too.

There's a lot of non-canon info in that timeline though.

[Blaise Russel]

I dont think so; but when dealing with the Shivans, I'd think that the GTVA would deploy as many ships as possible.

Well, part of the whole Freespace 2 thing was the GTVA's (mistaken) belief that they were equal, if not superior, to the Shivans and could beat them easily.

There's a lot of non-canon info in that timeline though.

Not to mention inaccurate canon info (i.e. construction of the Iceni).

[ChronoReverse]

If you read the in-between missions text carefully, you'll note that more than one battlegroup was annihilated completely by the Shivans.  I'd say it's safe to say we had more destroyers and capitals... they just got obliterated.

[Knight Templar]

HEADZ@!@#@!!!!!!!333

[amitskaw]

I don't think it likely at all that "Battle Group" and "Fleet" are interchangeable; rather I think that battle group means more or less what it means now: a major combat formation organized at fleet level on a semi ad-hoc basis from resources available at the fleet level.  (A quick digression: the buried assumption seems to be that every system has a fleet, which I don't think is true.  3rd fleet Capella is based in Capella, but it is likely responsible for a number of systems around that system).

So Third Fleet has a whole host of units and installations under its command: Several destroyers, a number of what a 21st century navy would call “major surface combatants” (the Corvettes, basically, although my historical completist mind insists there are other types, or at least classes, that we just haven’t seen), escorts (cruisers and such) and fighter wings, plus one god-awful big logical tail of freighters, transports, stations, repair craft and a veritable ****load of other stuff needed to keep everyone fed, fueled, and supplied.  All this is under the command of Petrarch, and with it he is commanded to Go Forth, Do Good, Keep the Peace, and Defended the GTA.  The implementation of this is left too him, as he has four stars upon his shoulder, and answers only to god and budget committees.

So when he needs to put down a rebellion someplace, or show the flag, or just Do Stuff in general, what he does is put together a destroyer or two, mate  it (or them) with a fighter wing(s), add in a some corvettes and a great many (as that term can meaningfully be applied to great huge, absurdly expensive heavily manned space faring warships; i.e. six or eight is a great many) cruisers, assign a rear- or vice-admiral to command it depending on the size, and send them off to Do That Previously Alluded Stuff.  This is what I judge is most likely meant by “Battle Group”, and its probably named after the destroyer where the commanding admiral hoists his flag, so that Aquitaine and her attendants are the “Aquitaine battle group”

Well.  That just revealed that I think about this stuff way to hard.  I’m going to go contemplate why no one will ever love me.

[Striker]

Dont worry, I love you. You said what I was going to, only you went into better detail. Another thing that proves his theory is the Colossus battlegroup. In the FS2 opening cinematic, we see the Colossus, 2 Sobeks, 2 Fenris's, and 2 Mentus. So a battlegroup may be something close to a Destroyer, 2 Corvettes, 4-5 cruisers, and fighter escort. I didnt count the fighters in the cinematic but you know. So I think a battlegroup is simply a destroyer and a few escorts.

A task force is probably variable in size, but they can be bigger than fleets, as shown by the nebula task force of both 3rd fleet and 11th (I think?)

So what have we learned today?

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah, good idea, trust the FMV sequences, 'cause they got the Battle of Deneb exactly right....

(Not to mention showing Capella as having only one star.)

[Blaise Russel]

Hmmph.

3rd fleet Capella is based in Capella, but it is likely responsible for a number of systems around that system

You mean like Epsilon Pegasi and Vega? Oh, wait...

assign a rear- or vice-admiral to command it depending on the size...

You mean like Admiral Khafre? Oh, wait...

and it's probably named after the destroyer where the commanding admiral hoists his flag...

You mean like the 13th Battle Group of Deneb? Oh, wait...



Obviously, I am a firm proponent of the 'Terran Fleet, Vasudan Battle Group' theory. Given that there is no reference whatsoever to a Vasudan Fleet, and yet what would appear to be a counterpart to the 3rd Fleet of Capella is the Vasudan 13th Battle Group of Deneb, and that Admiral Khafre's command is consistently referred to as the 13th Battle Group and not the 13th Fleet or Psamtik Battle Group while Admiral Petrarch's command is consistently referred to as the 3rd Fleet and not the 3rd (or whatever number) Battle Group or Aquitane Battle Group... I think that 'Terran Fleet, Vasudan Battle Group' wins out over 'Battle Group is part of Fleet'.

Admittedly though the ships with the Colossus were refered to as it's Battle Group.

That could just be a generic name given to a number of warships, though, and not actually a title like "The Colossus Battle Group", something that is along the same lines as "The 13th Battle Group." Although it could also be the long-handed version of writing "the Colossus Battle Group" since capital letters wouldn't work well with "the Colossus and its battle group".



Oh, and: This old version of FSURP has some stuff on it that hasn't been moved over to the newer version.

[kv1at3485]

^ Yup.  There's of weird stuff going on when it comes to the GTVA nomenclature, but that's the way it is.

The only extension to fleet organzation that I can immeadiately see is that each fleet/battlegroup consists of multiple warship squadrons.  A few squadrons of cruisers here, a few squadrons of corvettes there, with destroyers being nominally 'independent'.

[Liberator]

Fleet:  a number of warships under a single command; specifically : an organization of ships and aircraft under the command of a flag officer

Group(assume Battle):   a military unit consisting of a headquarters and attached battalions

I think, given the Vasudans unique organizational skills, that they only 1 Fleet.  Which consists of approximately 2 dozen destroyers of varying classes, approximately twice that number of corvettes and 3-5 time that number of cruisers.  Battle Groups are detached and dispatched as needed by Fleet Command(not the Terran).  The Fleet  would likely be funded as a whole by the Empire and given that a Battle Group is hardly ever more than 5 jumps from an Installation or Planet, provisioning would be handled in these locations not by hundreds of freighters trailing behind the various battle groups.

Humans on the other hand would probably make each "Fleet" the responsibility of the various systems they patrol.  The Commanding Admiral(Five Stars simply to give him the rank) would likely be stationed on the "capitol planet" of the system where he would work closely with the civilian government to arrange provisioning and such, make tactical decisions and such.  Actual day-to-day control of the fleet would be taken care of by the most senior admiral in the system from his flag ship.  I would expect a similar distribution of ships as the Vasudans, with a larger portion being older designs refit with newer systems(Orions and Fenris/Leviathans).  Newer ships would form the core squadron(Aquitaine, Monitor, ect) with the older ships(Carthage) being on "ready deploy" status should the need arise,

[Swamp_Thing]

I think battle groups are a more offensive vocationed group, while a fleet acts in both ways, offensive or defensive.
A battle group is more focused on search and destroy missions, while a fleet is more for focused on defending a system, for space superiority.
Battle groups should have more offensive firepower, bombers, destroyers, all the heavy hitters. And they bring along much less support ships, because they are set for shorter duration missions.
I would say a Fleet (in its Earth naval essence)  is composed of 2 pairs of carriers, some 8 battleships, about 16 cruisers, several destroyers and escort frigates, lots of corvets and dozens of gunboats, tanker ships and a multitude of support ships.

Wich reminds me, the hierarchy in the FS universe is diferent from the naval hierarchy (don´t know why). In the regular naval hierarchy,  a corvet is a small escort ship, slightly smaller than a frigate. A destroyer is smaller than a cruiser, and a bit larger than the frigate.  And the big hitter is the battleship and dreadnought. The correct order on FS should have been something like this:

-fighter
-bomber
-gunboat
-corvet  
-frigate
-destroyer
-cruiser
-battleship
-dreadnought
-carrier
-juggernought
-supercarrier

A battle group would be composed of one carrier, a couple of battleships and cruisers, and a surrounding cyrcle of escort ships, like destroyers, frigates and corvets. It would virtually have no support ships, because these are slow, and the group needs to move fast. The carrier would pack lots of attack bombers, and assault fighters.
A good example of a battle group is the one that hunted the Bismark, in WWII.
Battle groups are formed to chase down specific targets, like enemy cap ships.
At least that´s the way i see it.