[Black Wolf]

To implement an all encompassing system whereby a mission designer could overwrite player preference with command lines on a per mission basis? Ie., implement a little command line editor in the mission specs editor where you could force command lines on or off?

I ask because a lot of the more recent command lines are less about the core ways the game runt (-htl, -jpgtga, -pcx32 etc.) and more about graphical stuff ( -nomotiondebris, -phreak, -newradar (or whatever the 3d radar one is). This is the sort of stuff that can be applicable to mission designers. For example, when you go on Vasudan Exchange, it might be nice to force the player to use the new radar, the new -phreak scanning type etc. to enhance the sense of difference and change. Also, a lot of this stuff is going to be applicable to atmospheric missions. We're going to have to fiddle with getting the lighting conditions right for one thing, which is probably going to involve a high ambience setting.

Obviously there are going to be some problems. For example, I expect trying to turn on HTL mode halfway through a campaign would not be recieved well by the engine. You'd also have probalems with different builds not accepting different command lines. With suitable warnings however (both to the FREDder and the player (This mission requires at least FSO version 3.6.whatever)), and a certain degree of trust in the FREDder not to ignore those warnings, I doubt there'd be too many problems springing from that aspect of it. After all, worst case scenario, it's a bug in the mission and nobody plays it. That said, I don't really know if this sort of thing can be coded at all, let alone how difficult it would be.

So, err, any chance?

[karajorma]

AFAIK the things like new radar etc can be set from the tables (or at least the ability to do that will be implemented).  The command line flags are there to allow you to use a different radar until this is implemented or to use a different flag in campaigns that are already finished.

[Black Wolf]

Well, what about just adjusting the Ambient light settings then? Is this something that's coded deep into the engine, or is it something that might one day be modifyable at the mission level?

[CP5670]

Yeah, some of those things would be nice to specify on a per-mission basis.

As for the ambient light, there are some ambient light level sliders in the newer FRED2s (but they always seem to be grayed out) and the mission file has an ambient light setting at the beginning of the background section, although I don't really know how it works.

By the way, what exactly does the phreak command do? It's been there for a while but I never found it what it's for...

[Black Wolf]

Changes the scanning animation thing on your target view box in the bottom left.

[WMCoolmon]

*boink*

Wiki Command-line reference

[phreak]

i tried proposing a force-command-line sexp that would force certain sexps that may or may not alter gameplay (but will not alter graphics/performancer) based on how the mission designer intended (eg forcing WMCoolmon's -targetinfo flag or the -nobeampierce flag).  additionally, it can be set for all missions in a campaign as well.

here are the flags im looking at

from the internal

-targetinfo
-phreak (this may need a name change)
-nobeampierce (which can affect gameplay)
-ship_choice_3d (since some campaigns don't have interface art)
-nomotiondebris (for atmospheric missions)

that and whatever the orb command will be (probably -orb)

[Goober5000]

I'd rather not change flags that specifically have to do with balance, such as -nobeampierce and anything similar.  The player should have the final say in how he sets things up.  Imagine if there was a mission flag that forced everybody to play on Insane for that particular mission, regardless of difficulty setttings.

[Trivial Psychic]

On the -nobeampierce issue, I was hoping that someone would include  special shield FRED controls.  This would be useful in situations that might be presented in any Star Trek conversions, where you have the Dominion, whose weapons can pierce Fed shields, and then certain ships that are resistant to that, such as DS9 during the season 5 finale.  A checkbox in the ships editor labeled "shields resistant" or "no beam pierce" would allow someone give the station such shields, while any other Fed ships in the engagement would still have the normal shields, succeptable to the Dominion's piercing poloron beams.

Later!

[Black Wolf]

Any chance of getting ambient light added to tha Phreak?

[kasperl]

How about a bit of a command line overhaul, with 3 options instead of on and off. The three would be on, off, and mission select. If it is on mission select, the mission designer sets it, otherwise the player can. I think this would require quite a bit of work, but it would be very nice in the end.

[SadisticSid]

Originally posted by Goober5000
I'd rather not change flags that specifically have to do with balance, such as -nobeampierce and anything similar.  The player should have the final say in how he sets things up.  Imagine if there was a mission flag that forced everybody to play on Insane for that particular mission, regardless of difficulty setttings.

It's not a question of balance though - a mission designer could just write tables where capital ship beams can fire on fighters or something like that. AFAIK what's been proposed wouldn't affect the main campaign - it's just an option of convenience for modders.

Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
On the -nobeampierce issue, I was hoping that someone would include special shield FRED controls. This would be useful in situations that might be presented in any Star Trek conversions, where you have the Dominion, whose weapons can pierce Fed shields, and then certain ships that are resistant to that, such as DS9 during the season 5 finale. A checkbox in the ships editor labeled "shields resistant" or "no beam pierce" would allow someone give the station such shields, while any other Fed ships in the engagement would still have the normal shields, succeptable to the Dominion's piercing poloron beams.

Later!

How about giving the station shields and just taking them off all the ships you want the weapons to pierce? It'll be annoying not to have the shield effect but the visuals would surely be the only loss. I presume all their weapons pierce shields?

[WMCoolmon]

What if you want a token Klingon to warp in and fire off a few torpedoes at Federation/Dominion ships?

[Goober5000]

You can put "shield pierce" and "no shield pierce" in the weapon flag list.

[Trivial Psychic]

Maybe so, but you've also got Cardassian ships in there, whose weapon's can't pierce shields.  Only Dominion weapons can pierce shields, and only DS9's shields can stop those weapons.  Everyone else has normal weapons and shields.  Donminion beam weapons would have no special flags since beams pierce by default, but the Federation, Klingon, Cardassian, (and pretty much anyone else you can think of) beams have "no pierce shields" in their tables.

While I'm on the subject, is it possible to assign the "pierce shields" flag to secondaries at this point?

Later!

[WMCoolmon]

It sounds like the simplest solution would be to assign a "piercing level" for weapons, and a "pierce resistant" value for shields. Do a check to see if the weapon's piercing level is higher than the shield's anti-pierce level, and you're all set.

[mrduckman]

You are talking of star trek ships, but I ain't see no mod yet

[Trivial Psychic]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
It sounds like the simplest solution would be to assign a "piercing level" for weapons, and a "pierce resistant" value for shields. Do a check to see if the weapon's piercing level is higher than the shield's anti-pierce level, and you're all set.

Now THAT sounds like a good solution.  It would require a field for the weapon table entry, and one in the ships entry for shields augmentation.  We'd also need new sexps to augment or reduce a factor, either on a specific ship, ship-class, or team, for a given mission.  Combine the team-augment sexp that with persistant variables and you could even have sheilds improve automatically as a campaign progesses.

Mrduckman:  I was using Star Trek as an example, since ships are available so the possibility for a full Mod in the future, does exist.  There's no reason to think that some post-Capella FS2 mod might be able to make use of this capability.

Later!

[mrduckman]

Awww.. I wished you told me about one ;(