[TrashMan]

1. What is the max subobject limit per ship in the current SCP build. I have ships with 20 multi-part turrets chrashing the game, so it must be below..

PLEASE, PLEASE put the limit higher for the next build. It's just one line of code for christ's sake! 25-30 hould be the bare minimum...

2. I know that turret code is spagetti, but did you figure out how to make bulti-part turrets fire out of all barrrels yet? I think it would be about time.

3. Is it possible to makce changes so that turrets don't have to face forward in order to work properly?
If I turn the turret towards the rear, it doesn't rotate properly...

[StratComm]

I'll go ahead and answer at least one of those.

1) It was raised at some point and then lowered back down, presumably because of multi.  And you assume it's only one line of code, but it could in fact be a lot more complicated than changing a constant.  For whatever reason the limit exists, a good bit of settings have to be made under the assumption that there won't be more.

2) This one should be doable, but figuring out how to incorporate it without breaking backwards compatability would be crucial.

3) No, not a chance, absolutely not.  This is precisely what has made everyone even partially involved in the SCP scream bloody murder whenever turreting code comes up.  Simple fact of the matter is the rotation behavior is hard-coded very specifically to the silly setup it's in now, and getting it fixed properly is something that no-one wants to touch.

[Starman01]

Now this is a real problem ! I also need to know how high the maximum for multipart-turrets is.

We had a running model before HT&L which had 34 Multipart-Turrets and worked excellent, and now you have reduced that limit ?

Sorry, I don't want to offend anyone personally here, but where is the improvement ? I mean, how many people really want to play only multiplayer, and how many campaign support this anyway ?

Everyone is building big mods here with maybe a small multiplayer-part ( a few missions maybe, we might do this too), but why should this be a reason to limit the feature-possibilities for the big stuff. I cant believe, that supporting some "shoot-em-all"-multiplayer stuff is the main-reason for the work on the Source-code. You guys have done such great work on the code in past, so please think about this issue and change it.

(Otherwise we must even skip all work on the kilrathi-dreadnaught,  because it should have 50+ turrets, but to this point I would waste my time on it, which is a sad thing actually )

And about Trashman's other points, I also hope that you can sometimes do this. escpecially the idle-position of turret-arms, it really sucks when they are at the beginning in viagra-position.

P.S. (Sorry, this may be bad grammar, but I'm sure you get the point I mean)

[TrashMan]

As far as I know, the max number of rotating subobjects IS one line of code...I could be wrong, but I think one of the coders told me that a while ago...

Fireing out of all barrels is the most important thing on the turrets that should be fixed in my oppinion.

As far as the third question goes, I wasn't refering to the "viagra" position of the turrets - yes, it can be iritating if you have long barrels.
I was refering to the not that important thing of turrets allways having to face forward, or else they do not rotate properly...
As I said, it's not that important...

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Starman01
Sorry, I don't want to offend anyone personally here, but where is the improvement ? I mean, how many people really want to play only multiplayer, and how many campaign support this anyway ?

Everyone is building big mods here with maybe a small multiplayer-part ( a few missions maybe, we might do this too), but why should this be a reason to limit the feature-possibilities for the big stuff. I cant believe, that supporting some "shoot-em-all"-multiplayer stuff is the main-reason for the work on the Source-code. You guys have done such great work on the code in past, so please think about this issue and change it.

I don't think you've got a handle on the problem here. From what I understood increasing the limit didn't just break the code for multiplayer with ships with lots of multi-part turrets. It broke the code for lots of ships with multi-parts including some of the default [V] ships.

[Starman01]

I think I understand, but the problem is still the same. For multi-player reason we have to give up creating ships with lot's of turrets. I guess the alternative would be creating those buckle-like freespace turrets ? This would really suck on most models.

Can you give me a number, how high the current limit is at all ? (Maybe it is still high enough, or can be at least raised up a little.)

[StratComm]

12, IIRC.  Maybe 20, but 12 is the number I've always tried to stay below.

[TrashMan]

12!!! Ick...too small... 20 at least!

[aldo_14]

Learn to live with it.

[Starman01]

I have a running ship with currently 16 multipart- turrets, but a max of 20 is just ridiculous.

I still can't see a reason while something that worked well (even in original freespace ) and never seem to cause any troubles (except for the Multiplayer-Support, which has never run properly before, at least
AFAIK) .

This is really a hit beneath the girdle-line for the entire WC-Saga project.

[StratComm]

The limit's always been there as far as I know.  I know for a fact that the SCP did not impose it.  I've had multiparts work past the 12 limit in that they shoot, but they don't turn to fire.

[Tolwyn]

But they do work in single-player, non? What's the point of restricting the number of rotating multipart-sub objects?

As Starman said: we had a ship with 35 rotating turrets and it worked fine, until HTL was introduced. The model was rendered unusable due to the high number of used maps (over 16).

Is a similar issue is going to happen again, which will render part of our work again unusable? Do not get me wrong, I have great respect for everyone, who was able to enhance the 6 year old engine beyond anyone could have imagined and the texture limit introduced by HTL serves it purpose well, namely decreasing memory usage. This one, however, is simply silly.

[Black Wolf]

You can't make an omlette without breaking eggs unfortunately. The SW conversion could also use more multiparts and side mounted multiparts as well, but I respect the choices the SCP coders have made, and suspect that they are reasonable ones. Surely you can convert some of your multiparts to single parts? It may break canon, but breaking the engine is more of a problem I'd suspect.

[Tolwyn]

Nah, that is exactly the problem: we need rotating turrets, everything else is inappropriate (means looks like crap). Multiplayer is the reason for this 'enhantment', right?

[Kazan]

AFAIK the number of multipart turrets allowed was _not_ reduced

[Tolwyn]

then the issue is settled then

[Starman01]

And how high is it after all ? I should know this to plan on my next steps. Wil it be possible to create a (huge , in file-size) model with 50 multi-part-turrets )?


(edit) rest deleted for the love of peace

[TrashMan]

LOL...yeah...what's teh current limit?

[Flaser]

I had a ship concept using bay weapons - massed conventional guns under a single CIC per bay - and though about a single turret but with multiple firing points. Let me clear that up: a single subobject, but with several firing points assigned to it.

Such a thing would benefit the SW mod too AFAIK.