Originally posted by Gank
No, hadnt, and if you give me a proper link to something with a bit more credibility than free republic or Israeli sites I might, scrolled though 4 pages of the google search without finding anything impartial about it. A CNN or BBC report will do, AP or reuters would be preferable.
Yeah, I've been unable to find
mainstream media reporting such a
damning tidbit of information. Of course, because of our differing viewpoints, you and I will most likely read completely different things into that: I don't believe the media that
did report it would make it up, and can easily see from past patterns of behaviour how mainstream news sites would choose not to report such things. You, OTOH, will probably conclude that it is a fabricated bit of information intended to make the Palestinians look that much worse, etc.
Such is life viewed through the eyes of the media. I don't ask you to believe that she was a children's TV show hostess. All I ask is that you remain aware of how much of what you (or I, to be fair) think we know about an event. It's truly amazing the power the media has over the opinions of people around the world.
Tell me, had CNN/BBC/AP/Reuters actually reported that Zeinab Ali Isa Abu-Salem was a children's TV show hostess, came from a rich family background, etc - what would that change in your perception of "things", whetever it might be?
Originally posted by Gank
refugee camps then, cos most of them are named after martyrs?
Tell you what sand, provide some concrete proof of the existence of these suicide bomber camps, their links to terrorism etc, and then we'll talk about the lack of an Israeli equivelent.
No, actual summer camps. Does
MEMRI count as a sufficiently reputable source for you? Here's what someone at BBC wrote about them:
[q]"
www.memri.org - What they do is very simple, no commentary nothing else. What they do is they just translate what the Saudis say in the mosques, say in their newspapers, say in government pronouncements, say in their press."
- October 1, 2002, BBC[/q]
If that works for you,
read this (specifically paragraph 6):
[q]The official Palestinian Authority Web site carries photographs of gun-toting Arab children, including the one below.
Other Arab children attend the two summer camps named after the female suicide bomber Wafaa Idris, or the others named after "shahids" or martyrs - i.e., suicide bombers - or after the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, which the U.S. government has designated as a terrorist organization. At one such camp, according to the Memri report, "the children held a closing ceremony which included a play called "The Shahid's Wedding"- that is, his wedding in Paradise to the 72 black-eyed virgins.[/q]
Or do you still refuse to believe?
Originally posted by Gank
Seeing how these wars were started because of the great land garp of 48, you dont really have a leg to stand on with that arguement. To remind you, 7% of the original palestinian mandate was legally owned by jews before 1948, you now rule 100%, all of which has been taken by force. You live in Jerusalem right? East right? Where were you born? How did your parents get the house they live in? Did they buy it off a former resident or the jewish National Fund?
"Land garp"?
Seriously, though, read up on
some history. The formation of the State of Israel was granted by the UN. The war started because the Arab states refused to recognize that, and attacked us.
I live in Gilo, the Jerusalem-neighborhood-turned-settlement once "they" started shooing at us. It is situated in the southmost part of Jerusalem, with the (friendly) Arab neighborhood of Beit Saffafa (sp?) between us and the rest of Jerusalem, and the Arab village of Beit Jala to our south (known as the village terrorists occupied to shoot at Gilo from).
I was born in Spokane, Washington, US of A. And we have rented all of our apartments in the 16 years we've lived in Israel - we do not own any property here yet (not an unusual situation at all for Israel, FYI).
Your point?
Originally posted by Gank
If I remember you admitted you werent actually aware who started it after I posted numerous quotes from Israeili leaders saying different. can dig up the thread if you like, was about yassin iirc.
Yes, I was unaware of the specific history of the 1967 war, being that I hated history classes in school. If nothing else, I've certainly learned new things from all these debates around here. Have you learned anything?
Originally posted by Gank
Please explain exactly how you're going to do this, because every site I've seen whatever there political leanings agrees you havent the capabilities.
I was half-kidding. Besides, IIRC the response time and high velocity of the Israeli Arrow II anti-missile missile allows it to destroy incoming missiles within minutes of the launch detection, which in this case would destroy any missiles Iran might toss our way over Iraq, Jordan, or Syria.
Theoretically.
Originally posted by Gank
Thank you, were they what you were in? I belive the zippo thingy is a reference to their tendancy to brew up rather quickly. The reason I mentioned them is that most Israeli apcs are fairly well armoured, but seeing how the tanks you mentioned are old (centurions/m60s cant remeber which) and youre a reservist seemed logical you'd be getting the older apcs. Not important or anything, just profession curiosity.
Israel loves refitting older tanks to keep them comprable to "new" modern tanks. The
Magach MBT, origianlly based on the M48, with the later versions based on the M60, are a perfect example of this. The
Magach 7 is comprable to a modern MBT in capabilities, although it is still overshadowed by the likes of the Merkava 3 & 4, the M1A1, etc.
Anyway, the Israeli APCs I've seen aren't armored all that well. There's a thin outer layer of perforated metal that sits about a foot away from the main hull of the APC, and is meant to cause incoming RPG-type rockets to detonate prematurely, thus wasting their focused superheated lead (IIRC) on the open air between outer layer and actual hull. However, higher-caliber bullets, such as those from 7.62mm Kalachnikovs, are apparently able to penetrate the APC's thin actual armor under certain circumstances.
