Author Topic: the Pope has died.  (Read 6476 times)

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Offline Ford Prefect

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Bottom line is that it's best to wait until marriage before going all the way. That way you can make sure that you stay with the person that you do that with. This will liken the chances that the person that you have sex with will be the only person that you do that with in all your life.

And you are free to hold to those principles. However, some of us do not consider sex sacred. I for one, see it as simply a Dionysian celebration of being human, and have no objections to promiscuity on the part of either sex. All that people of my school of thought ask is that people of your school of thought refrain from imposing your values on us.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline aldo_14

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'sides which, (as a minor comment) some people just don't want to get married.  They (a couple) might stay together their entire life, doesn't mean they have to get married to do so.

EDIT; adjunct comment to Ford Prefects post.  Damn timewarp.

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Great... this thread is sexing its way down the ****ter.
Spoon - I stand in awe by your flawless fredding. Truely, never before have I witnessed such magnificant display of beamz.
Axem -  I don't know what I'll do with my life now. Maybe I'll become a Nun, or take up Macrame. But where ever I go... I will remember you!
Axem - Sorry to post again when I said I was leaving for good, but something was nagging me. I don't want to say it in a way that shames the campaign but I think we can all agree it is actually.. incomplete. It is missing... Voice Acting.
Quanto - I for one would love to lend my beautiful singing voice into this wholesome project.
Nuclear1 - I want a duet.
AndrewofDoom - Make it a trio!

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Are you allergic to civil debate? Because this thread is doing far better than most of the socially charged persuasion.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline aldo_14

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I've seen far, far worse myself.

 

Offline Scuddie

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I don't understand why people here care about heated debates, really.
Bunny stole my signature :(.

Sorry boobies.

 

Offline vyper

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I prefer to see sex as a very very very very good method of exercise.

Did I say how very good it was?
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline vyper

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:wtf: I'm all for your standpoint, but what is it doing in here? Art thou seeking divine intervention?
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline TrashMan

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Originally posted by aldo_14
Actually, that's complete rubbish.  Firstly, the age of sex has varied hugely across time; before the idea of sexual education was conceived,  pediastry was commonplace in Ancient Greece, and it was equally common for grown men to marry young teenage girls in  europe much later on (In Romeo and Juliet, for example, Juliet was 14-15).


Yes, they were totaly f*/** up in those ages. But there is a difference here. A young heir to the thornoe being promissed to a old geezer is wrong, but it's not the sam as two 12 year-old doing it.

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Secondly, there is a significant problem with child abuse and child trafficking in Africa (for example).  One singular example - directly caused by a lack of sexual education - is that having sex with a virgin can cure HIV/AIDs.  A second cause is different gender roles.  You assume to be basing an assumption that child abuse is less prevalent in poor, uneducated areas because less is (perhaps) reported; truth is that there are simply no facilities to report (or treat) abuse in many of these places.  

Another example - a 1997 study found that child abuse in Harare was 3 times higher than in the rest of the world.  Part of this was due to cultural notions that marriage with a 12-year old was acceptable, rape is condoned as a more serious form of seduction, and that it is encouraged for maternal uncles to fondle girls as a form of socialisation.


And that's why I said that education is paramount, or else people wn't abandon the old practices and myths.

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In fact, western studies have shown that sex education raises the age of first sexual encounter (i.e. in Holland, it is taught earlier than the UK, yet the sex occurs on average at a later age); and that children who leave school early prior to sex education in the UK are more likely to have sex - and unprotected at that - earlier.

Similarly, those who left school with a qualification were less likely to have sex early, practise unsafe sex or become pregnant. [/i]


I'm not against sex education - quite the contrary. What I was trying to say is that there is a time, place and way for everything.
The age at which you teach sex education, exactly what you tech and the y way you teach it are of immense importance.
Unless all 3 are done correctly, more damage then good can be done..

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Thirdly, you're making a completely pointless link between the media  and sex education.  Sex education is not, and has never been about 'encouraging' sex; you'd be an idiot if you thought that was the point of it.  The point of it is to explain sex - the physical purpose of it, the consequences, and the possible risks.  The protective use of contraceptives is described, as is the dangers of STDs and casual sex.  

Again, none of this is of a purpose to 'sexualise' the pupils; the development of - for lack of a better term -  sexuality is a societal issue, not educatory.  If you removed sex education altogether, you'd end up with more under-age sex without protection, and more STDs, as has been scientifically proven in studies.

If you want to attack under-age sexuality, then criticise the medias role; but don't relate sexual education to it, because it bears no relation - if anything, it's a specific response to that problem, to allow people to make more educated decisions. [/B]


Yes, youre completely right, the media and society itself are the root of the problem.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

  

Offline aldo_14

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Originally posted by TrashMan


Yes, they were totaly f*/** up in those ages. But there is a difference here. A young heir to the thornoe being promissed to a old geezer is wrong, but it's not the sam as two 12 year-old doing it.

It's a similar paradigm; the age of sexual attractivness and consent is something that has demonstratably changed throughout time; it's scarcely something that can be blamed upon modern society or education.

The side aspect is that two 12 year olds are doing it consensually (actually, I'm not entirely sure if it's physically possible to have true sex at that age, or at least in the majority of children); the purpose of sex education is to inform of the consequences of that decision.  Children are aware of sex from a very early age; possibly due to a societal factor; but most (all in fact, I think) formal sex education actually teaches abstinance at that age, until the person/s involved can be considered competent to understand what is involved (at which point the decision is left up to them).

And, of course, there is a trend for the age of puberty to decrease - it's not clear why - this drop has been occuring since the 1840s, so it's not confined to current society.  As a result, we'll inevitably have to deal with the issue of sex at a younger and younger age to address this.


And that's why I said that education is paramount, or else people wn't abandon the old practices and myths.

And part of that education has to cover the consequences of sex, both physical and psychological.  aka sex education

I'm not against sex education - quite the contrary. What I was trying to say is that there is a time, place and way for everything.
The age at which you teach sex education, exactly what you tech and the y way you teach it are of immense importance.
Unless all 3 are done correctly, more damage then good can be done..

So what exactly are you against?  

Because it's already been shown that earlier/any sex education actually helps to increase the age of first having sex; I don't think any post here has advocated it in a specific way or programme, but rather pointed out the effectiveness in response to an unfounded claim that "abuse occurs whenever sex education is given to children by teaching them all the intimate details of genital relationships".

Now, to address that specific claim; sex education is shown not to increase but decrease under-age sex when taught earlier (if you regard 'abuse' as being same-age, underage premarital sex).  In terms of abuse, there's simply no logic to the statement I can find; it would seem to imply that teaching children what sex is, somehow a) encourages adults to abuse children and b) encourages children to accept(?) abuse.  Either way i can't make any sensible basis for it; especially as abuse is highly prevalent in areas with little or no sex education (such as the aforementioned Africa example/s); bearing in mind, of course, that sex education includes tackling the customs and attitudes that create said problem, as well as the biological details.


Yes, youre completely right, the media and society itself are the root of the problem.


I'm always somewhat wary of blaming 'media' and 'society'; to me it is usually accompanied with a call for a return to Victorian style 'good old fashioned values'.  

What exactly is the problem, anyway?  How would you define it?

« Last Edit: April 07, 2005, 10:31:28 am by 181 »