[Davros]

found this thread here:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=196528

that shows that its ok to give a copy of freespace 2 to a friend
but upon checking my copy it doesnt say that  - mine isnt the original release my copy is the budget version containing freespace 1 + 2 (white label published by virgin)
So maybe the eula was changed...

Can someone who has the original release of freespace 2 verify please

tnx......

[Fury]

Read the EULA that is shown when you install the game, not the one in readme.

[Davros]

Oops sorry yes

tnx...

[Inquisitor]

EULA can be changed at any time. One one contradicts the other, take the most recent.

The "give to your friend" clause is something that I am sure they made go away.

However, with the "death" of interplay, I am not sure it matters.

I just wish people would stop deluding themselves into thinking that made mass pirating legal

The game is however on Underdogs and several other sites, so, I think we're calling it abadonware until someone tells us different.

[StratComm]

Technically speaking, I don't know that ANY of those EULA's are legally binding, especially those that are not clearly dated and which do not explicitly contradict one another.  Inquisitor's right, but instead of even trying to rely on the EULA in this case I think any precedent of "fair use" (if it exists anymore) is more pertenent to the current status than either version of the EULA.

[WMCoolmon]

That's actually a good point. If the wiki's definition of fair use is at all accurate, you could definitely argue that many of the campaigns making use of FS2 data is helping to 'further art'.

[Flaser]

They CAN'T change the EULA of a program I already BOUGHT.

Whenever I install the program, I 'sign a contract' with the developer that permits the use of the product.

So as long as there is one program that states that I can give it away to frieds, I have the legal right to do so, since I bought that right.

[Gemini14]

www.freespacezone.com

According to that site, they now have permission to distribute the Freespace2 discs as freeware from Volition now. You can grab them from there if a friend needs a copy. That should clear this up a bit. (The supposed ISO image posted on that site are mislabeled, they are BIN images with an incorrect extension. They can be converted back if need be, do a Google search for "bin2iso")

[StratComm]

I somehow doubt that their claims are 100% correct on the distribution.  Besides, the game isn't Volition's property to give away anyway.

[dizzy]

StratComm in US at least EULAs are pretty much legally binding as they can get. They even can waive rights provided by other laws (like "fair use") if you agree with it. As an example take the Vivendi vs bnetd case:
http://www.eff.org/IP/Emulation/Blizzard_v_bnetd/

Short version: bnetd developers made an open source program (bnetd) that emulates blizzard's battle.net service; for this they reverse engineered the transfered over the wire packets (yeah, not very easy); vivendi (blizzard's mother company) has sued bnetd other countless claims (copyright law that they said it's impossible to reverse what theyr eversed and as such they probably copied blizzard server code although that was never avilable anywhere, trademark law that "bnetd" confused people into thinking it's the original battle.net, DMCA that bnetd doesn't check for the user's CD key (it cannot check, only blizzard has the database of valid CD keys) and as such is a circumenvion device in the terms of DMCA, violation of EULA that states that if you agree with it you cannot reverse engineer the protocol or any parts of the software). Early in the lawsuit the judge has dismissed the copyright and trademark claims (most stupid) but in the end has agreed with Blizzard that the bnetd devs where in both DMCA and EULA violation. Then EFF (who represented bnetd) has appealed but have recently lost (the appeal court has given a summary judgement in favour of blizzard just a couple of days ago).

So as it stands right now, in the US is illegal to brake the EULA even that you just exercise some rights given by other laws as long as the EULA forbids them.

[karajorma]

FreespaceZone doesn't have permission. They've made the mistake of assuming that cause the source code was released the game is now freeware. That's not the truth for reasons covered here.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by dizzy
StratComm in US at least EULAs are pretty much legally binding as they can get. They even can waive rights provided by other laws (like "fair use") if you agree with it. As an example take the Vivendi vs bnetd case:
http://www.eff.org/IP/Emulation/Blizzard_v_bnetd/

I thought we had a discussion recently where someone brought up that no EULA has ever held up in court?  Something about waiving rights you're supposed to have, signing under coercion, etc.

[StratComm]

Exactly my point.  The Blizzard case is a little different than the common case of "bending" the EULA or taking one out of several as being the correct one.  More importantly, there is no Interplay to actually assert the "contract" that is the EULA and if they did it's still woefully vague now that everything but the art has been legally released for free.

[karajorma]

I think that's the European view on the matter. America has obviously decided to interpret the law in a rather strange manner.

Quite frankly I can't see how that could ever be legal though. You can't nullify the effect of a law just by signing a contract. If you could the usury laws for instance wouldn't be worth the paper they were written on as every single customer has to sign a contract to get the money. Hell you could even use such a contract to get around loansharking by making it legal for the shark to break your legs if you default.

Personally this sounds like a rather poorly thought out judgement to me.

[dizzy]

About the European view, well, we will surely see in a few weeks I supose how the US court decisions will affect us. I am a developer for PvPGN (http://pvpgn.berlios.de) which is a bned-based gaming server emulations oftware (supports all Battle.net plus most Westwood Online clients). We already got a lot of strange people on our IRC channels and forums asking some strange questions I say, so I would expect legal threats sent to our ISPs pretty soon (or just being too paranoid but I know that Vivendi has sent such threats to a lot of US people at least).

PS: while shutting down PvPGN will affect me emotionally very badly because I have invested almost 4 years of work into this project it should be better for fs2open as I intend to dedicate the free time I would then have to fs2open; hope that here it will not happen something similar

[Inquisitor]

They CAN'T change the EULA of a program I already BOUGHT.

Yes, they indeed can.

Anyway, unless one of you is hiding a law degree somewhere, this is all speculation.

Ask a lawyer, don't pontificate about it on a development forum.

My understanding of the law is that it is, wholly, illegal.

But since FS2 is abandonware, I turn an uncaring eye towards it until Interplay returns and issues a cease and desist. We've made every effort to find out. So I point people at HOTU until HOTU gets told to take it down.

BTW, Rumour has it that HOTU actually DID take it down for several months at Interplays behest (it was remoived for a couple months, that much I know, the interplay request is the rumour). Then Interplay vanished off the net, and afatre a time, HOTU put it back up.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Inquisitor
Yes, they indeed can.

They can't though.  That'd be an ex post facto contract and those are unenforceable.  That much I know for sure.

Now if they released a new updated game with a new updated EULA, and you bought the new game, that's different.  Then you'd be bound by the new EULA when you use the new game (but not when you use the old one).

[karajorma]

HotU took it down the second the Interplay 20th  Anniversary edition was released. I suspect it was simply because they couldn't classify it as abandonware if Interplay were actually selling it again.

Once interplay went bust and the Interplay store disappeared they waited a while and then put it back up.

I've never heard anything that said Interplay were behind the removal.

[StratComm]

Originally posted by Goober5000
They can't though.  That'd be an ex post facto contract and those are unenforceable.  That much I know for sure.

Unless the one you agree to stipulates that the other party (interplay) can change the EULA at any time.  Most EULAs of today have this clause, but I'm not sure that the original FS2 EULA did.  I've been meaning to put FS2 on my laptop, so I'll look at the one that you actually have to click "agree" on sometime.

[karajorma]

I doubt that would hold up in a court of law anyway. No meeting of the minds.