Author Topic: The Pentagon spies on people?  (Read 2003 times)

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Offline karajorma

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Re: The Pentagon spies on people?
For the record, elements of the DoD, such as able danger, knew about terrorist cells in the US prior to 9/11 and the Clinton Administration, because of the exact sentiment displayed here, told them to STFU.

I notice you don't mention that Bush gave them no permission to start speaking in the 8 months he was president. :rolleyes:
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Pentagon spies on people?
Well, it might be a simple issue of policy or law. They probably are not allow to simply destroy investigation material. For example, in the Acquisition and Procruement Office of the Pentagon, we have to keep the simplest contract for a total of 3 years after it has been closed. I suggest the same thing is at issue here with keeping data long after they are determined to be a non-threat.

I suggest, maybe they record the protests to see if they are infact peaceful. But then again, I haven't fully read the article.

The article notes data being kept on 230 protests after the event, and when they were declared 'not a threat' (“US group exercising constitutional rights.”), i.e. peaceful.  Apparently data is also kept on the people and vehicles who attend these protests.

I believe, incidentally, that the reason Able Danger were barred from providing/keeping information on the likes of Atta was regulations against spying on civillians dating back to the Vietnam war era, and the outcry then from spying on peace activists and protestors. 

Although it's worth noting from the wikipedia article itself that the evidence of identifying Atta, etc, could just be apocryphal; in particular Curt Weldon (who made the allegation IIRC) has recently restated he is no longer sure that he did in fact see Atta (on a chart; the chart itself also doesn't exist anymore). Pentagon officials (according to the Time report linked in the wikipedia article) deny Atta was ever identified by the group.  So it's not a clear cut case as far as I can see; the absence of physical evidence could be either a coverup or simply that there isn't any.

But I have not seen any evidence so far that says, if there was a legal intervention to prevent use of said info (if it existed), that the reason for said legal intervention can be placed in any way upon the then Clinton government.

 

Offline redmenace

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Re: The Pentagon spies on people?
I also ask if the bush administration was aware of the standing policy. But on the same token, you bring up a good point. Did they attempt to to inform the administration of this restriction in communication and why? Were they not heard? But the original policy was instituted by previous administration. I am not trying to simply give Bush any slack on the the issue either. But I think you and Kosh are missing the point, being worrying about civil liberties and public perceptions of surveilance sometimes needs to take a back seat when there is a "Clear and Present Danger." At the same time I don't suggest the type of extreme that LA's gang injuctions are known to be.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: The Pentagon spies on people?
But I think you and Kosh are missing the point, being worrying about civil liberties and public perceptions of surveilance sometimes needs to take a back seat when there is a "Clear and Present Danger."

Actually, that's exactly the point; the 'Clear and Present Danger' to our freedoms - that is, the inherent freedoms required of a democratic society with freedom of belief, speech, and under the eyes of the law - is from the fearmongering and legislation of so-called protective measures that in fact suspend, undermine, circumvent or just plain ignore the tenets of what we are supposed to be 'fighting for'. 

At a time when the threat is deemed to be so large (even though it in all likelihood is not - but fear can be an effective political tool, as we can see in both the US and UK), surely it is the worst time to begin diminishing our civil liberties and human rights?

 

Offline Inquisitor

Re: The Pentagon spies on people?
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Re: The Pentagon spies on people?
Considering the number of conspiracy nuts with too much time on their hands, Wikipedia can't be considered a reliable source of information.

It was a good idea originally, but if you let everyone contribute without filtering out the bull****, you end up with a lot of bull****.
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Offline achtung

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Re: The Pentagon spies on people?
For the record, elements of the DoD, such as able danger, knew about terrorist cells in the US prior to 9/11 and the Clinton Administration, because of the exact sentiment displayed here, told them to STFU. Even funnier, members of the 9/11 Commission had direct involvement in this catastrophe.  :mad:




As always, you have no idea what you are talking about. Yeah, why not blame hurricane Katrina on Clinton too while you are at it? :rolleyes:
To be honest I'm surprised the victims didn't blame Clinton :doubt:
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