[Mefustae]

I'm sure it'd be a simple task for the entire bomber compliment of a Warlock, any Destroyers in the area, and any garrisons nearby all loaded to the brim with Stilletto III's and the latest Disruptor-type weapon.

[Shadow0000]

If you do ambush the Gigas after using a 'decoy' then you only have the time between the Gigas destroying the decoy and recharging before it starts vaporising the larger ships again. The only way a fleet ambush would work would be to use 30 or so of the heaviest destroyers, which I doubt the game would like.

Well yes is very deadly.......
The center is almost unprotected, I have tried, and only the upper SBF can attack if you send a ship between it's the center of it (a little up also) or a little up. I don't know how a ship would end warping here (maybe the Odin).

The only way that I believe it can be destroyed without using the Icanus or a superpowerful bomb, would be to waste a Mission destroying most of the Turrets on one of it sides either left or right, and then attack from the weakened side, just like with FS2 Sathanas...

As for the subspace weapon, I've said before its used as a plot device and isn't supposed to do percise damage. It does what I need it to do, if I want a ship to survive it, it would survive, if I want it to vaporise the Solar system it could do that to Big grin

That's was Volition's use, that is why I still don't get how it really should work...

'm sure it'd be a simple task for the entire bomber compliment of a Warlock, any Destroyers in the area, and any garrisons nearby all loaded to the brim with Stilletto III's and the latest Disruptor-type weapon

The Executioner inflicts 24000 DMG to SubSystems, is far more than the Stiletto, but the cons are that it can be only carried by the Jotun D.H. (in INF R1 of course)

[Woomeister]

The only way that I believe it can be destroyed without using the Icanus or a superpowerful bomb, would be to waste a Mission destroying most of the Turrets on one of it sides either left or right, and then attack from the weakened side, just like with FS2 Sathanas...

Of course doing it that way would take ages and probably would be worse than when the Colossus faced the Sathanas.

[Dark Hunter]

Well this time we would have a ship MUCH more powerful (relatively) than the Colossus. Let's say the Colossus was a superdestroyer, and it took on a juggernaut; so we'd have a juggernaut take on the super-juggernaut in this "exploit the blind spot" style of super-capship killing. The difference is that a juggernaut would probably have a better firepower ratio than the Colossus did against the Sathanas. Just to show how weak the Colossus's firepower truly was, here's a  paraphrased quote from Derelict: "In all our computer simulations, the old Colossus would have had only a 22% chance of surviving a battle with the Nyarlathotep..."

Wasn't the Colossus created for combating Lucifer-class vessels in the first place? And now we learn it probably couldn't take one down.... Another spectacular GTVA flop.

(You know, I just reread this post and I realized that I barely understand what it is I'm trying to say in it... )

[Woomeister]

Wasn't the Colossus created for combating Lucifer-class vessels in the first place? And now we learn it probably couldn't take one down.... Another spectacular GTVA flop.

No we didn't learn that, just because Derelict says so doesn't make it official. Until a Colossus class goes up against a Lucifer we will never know officially.

[Shadow0000]

Of course doing it that way would take ages

Well, the more powerful the ship, the more time it takes to disarm it, the front-side turrets (Turret-08-09-10-11)  can be destroyed in 4:00 Min (one by minute), that 40% firepower less front that side (it still has a lot).
Using a single Wing of 4 Jotun D.H. carrying Executioners (but as always Alpha 1 performance is better than the other 3),  with no cover and no hostile wings, I test this with the Gigas stopped, but if you start destroying the SBF Beams in order and the Gigas is moving forward, it would be faster to move from turret to turret (of course you start by the front to the back, in order of firepower priority).



Aside from the 05/06/08/09/10/11, the others SBF Beams, the ones that are no turrets, are located in the those claws and so the area of the SubSystem is bigger and can be more easily targeted, if you set Fire-Beam to target the reaming SBF turrets with the destroyers, the Beams does important damage to Turrets, it can even destroy them, but Miss factor, just makes it's magic and it just end taking 50% or less of the Turret life (a lot)

I believed it was impossible, but it seems to be possible (not a mission that takes an hour)...I'll keep testing a little more...adding fighters, blahblah

No we didn't learn that, just because Derelict says so doesn't make it official. Until a Colossus class goes up against a Lucifer we will never know officially.

There are 2 possibilities, and both are correct:

A - Colossus vs. Lucifer (FS or Derelict version): wins the Colossus, doesn't matter from which side the Colossus is attacked it's superior in Firepower, the Colossus can attack with all it's firepower (most beams) only if the Ship that attack is below it.

B - Colossus vs. Lucifer (FS1 version with Shield): Colossus dead

The Lucifer from FS1 was somewhat "hacked" to have a Shields (capactiy) at 1,000,000 and the Power Output (regeneration) at also 1,000,000. I don't really believe it could the Colossus could do that much damage.
It seems rare than it's supply of 1,000,000 can be regenerated at the same speed, I mean who is enough smart to have such a shield regeneration technology, but a so poor supply technology that can store the same that is regenerated by second?...(it seems to be kind of hacked so the player won't destroy the luci...)

Remember in reality Beams doesn't pierce through Shields, maybe they probabily inflict more damage in area, piercing throught that are (an explosive weapon does spread damage), even so the beams still need to pass over the shield to damage the ship.

Even so, I believe the Colossus should win if the shield regeneration would be something more real and accurate to believe than 1,000,000...

[Woomeister]

Ah the good old R2-2 version Gigas. 2 generations old that one is now.

The Jotun D.H. was never designed to go against the Gigas though, it was developed later than the standard Jotun, so you should be using the normal Jotun for this.
Of course people think that it would just sit there if you did create a blind spot. It would probably reposition itself to use other beams. Which could have interesting results

[mr.WHO]

B - Colossus vs. Lucifer (FS1 version with Shield): Colossus dead

The Lucifer from FS1 was somewhat "hacked" to have a Shields (capactiy) at 1,000,000 and the Power Output (regeneration) at also 1,000,000. I don't really believe it could the Colossus could do that much damage.
It seems rare than it's supply of 1,000,000 can be regenerated at the same speed, I mean who is enough smart to have such a shield regeneration technology, but a so poor supply technology that can store the same that is regenerated by second?...(it seems to be kind of hacked so the player won't destroy the luci...)

Sorry I have to say it: What the hell are you talking about? FS1 Lucifer didn't have any shield, it just had an invunerable flag that can be easy added in FRED. I think (but I'm not sure) that you talking about FS1 to FS2 port mod. What can I say it MOD, so it's means it isn't canon, so this 1:1 Shield capacity:shield output means nothing.
I don't want to start another 100 page long discussion about Collosus vs Lucy result, but I just say: GTA/PVN propably have a ****load of battle analys, scans and readings of Lucys beams and shields, this means that Alliance propably know (during GW) what power & type the weapon need to overcharge those shields, but they simply didn't have a time to create such weapon, that's why they attacked Lucy in subspace. After GW when they begun to build Collosus and when they knew and have a weapon that is able to overcharge Lucy's beams, they simply created a ship that is able to destroy Lucy with ease (besides, it's total stupidity to lose 30 years and resources to something you didn't know if it will work).

I say It again, if beams aren't able to pierce through shields then they can burn through them like fighter cannons through fighter shields. Lucy shields aren't some kind of da god-super-duper-invunerable-with 200% capacity recharge per one second shields. They are like fighter shields but with much bigger capacity and recharge time.
Something that will cause that user of even dozen terran huge turrets to think they are invunerable, but nothing that single BGreen can't handle.

[Dark Hunter]

I have to agree with him there. Besides, if the Lucifer was "hacked" to have a sheild capacity of 1,000,000, wouldn't we have seen the white sheen of the shields appear after it got hit? That didn't happen.

[Goober5000]

Wasn't the Colossus created for combating Lucifer-class vessels in the first place? And now we learn it probably couldn't take one down.... Another spectacular GTVA flop.

No we didn't learn that, just because Derelict says so doesn't make it official. Until a Colossus class goes up against a Lucifer we will never know officially.

You can easily put together a mission to compare them.  It's quite obvious Derelict never did this because I just ran a bunch of experiments using the Colossus from High Noon and the standard Lucifer (though with SSL beams instead of SSLs) and the Colossus won every time, usually by a significant margin (50% hull or more).  Short summary of the results:
--If you point the Lucifer at the Colossus and the Colossus perpendicular to the Lucifer, there's no contest - the Colossus wipes the floor with the Lucifer.
--If you point the Lucifer and the Colossus directly at each other head-on, it's much closer, but the Colossus still wins by a safe margin.
--The only time the Lucifer came close to winning was when I started them at their High Noon distances away from each other and maxed out the range of the SSLBeams to 30 km.  It took a long time for the Colossus to get into range of the Lucifer, and in that time it lost a significant amount of hull, but once it got into range it was able to destroy the Lucifer before getting destroyed itself.

This assumes, of course, that beams can penetrate the Lucifer's FS1 shield.

[Dark Hunter]

That's moot anyway, since the Nyarlathotep didn't have the sheath sheild.

[Shadow0000]

FS1 Lucifer didn't have any shield, it just had an invunerable flag

It's unfair (that remember me to the Freder god...)
The story line says it uses a Shield, that's why you attack it in the SubSpace, but yes, it's my fault for fall so easy in Volition's way of making it.

The Jotun D.H. was never designed to go against the Gigas though

Nothing was developed to go against the Gigas anyways (not that appear in R1 Campaign, and not below SJ Class).

I could just see a simulation with Icanus, but as part of the GTVA in the mission, I prefer to risk thousands of lives in a semi-suicidal offensive against an almost invinvible ship as the gigas is...

The Jotun D.H. was never designed to go against the Gigas though, it was developed later than the standard Jotun, so you should be using the normal Jotun for this.

I can use any bomber, even Sabus or Gaganas, the problem is the time needed to destroy the turrets becomes more unreal. For Alpha 1 doesn't make too much difference to use the Jotun, less bombs, more rearm. Anyways wingmens usually enter too close to the range of the Executioner, and blow themselves (not talk about the Apocalypse bomb, don't give them those bombs, not even for a test).

I am bored by the moment, I simply sending Destroyers and ablove Class that appear in R1 to the Gigas. But I take the liberty of let the Gigas have the Kalhan and Vindhyachal to make as bomber, so I set a SOC wing (the only ones used were the Banshee and Ophion, I can't do anything with them), GTVA, and EA wing.

Of course people think that it would just sit there if you did create a blind spot. It would probably reposition itself to use other beams. Which could have interesting results

I wonder, even if the IA is enough smart to rotate the Gigas, the 2 URed beams at the front are easily destoyed they are too big and the destroyers rarely miss, and then it rotates and then we're ready for a slow and painful death, it start slashing every single ship with the SBF beams.

Don't take this seriously I am bored, I want to see how much and how fast it can be weakened enough to not kill every single ship in the screen in 10 seconds.

I have to agree with him there. Besides, if the Lucifer was "hacked" to have a sheild capacity of 1,000,000, wouldn't we have seen the white sheen of the shields appear after it got hit? That didn't happen.

The Beams just pierce through Shields, even if the flag for No Beam Piercing is activated, the difference is that the Damage is being taken from the Shield points and not directly from the Hit Points. This also applies to the "surface shields"  flag.

[mr.WHO]

@Shadow: Did you armed all of GTVA bombers with anti-subsystem weapons (I mean big bombs. and Inferno "maxim" cannon analogue)?

BTW what is the range of URed? does it's bigger than Apothes 15-20 Km? if not, then why not to use small (6-8) fleet of those to do a precision strike (just like SoL gate assault mission in R1) against it's beam turrets (even better with coordinated bomber attack in the same time)?

The problem would be that they would have time for 3-4 salvos to dammage/destoy Gigas turrets before shivan heavy bombers will arrive (but for what it's their fighterbay, they have fighter escort that should buy some time for 2 or 3 more salvos before bombers begin to break through defence).

[Woomeister]

The Apothess has less range than the SJugg beams as they needed to be large range so the Gigas and Icanus could fight each other without looking like they plan to ram each other.

[Dark Hunter]

They still kinda look like they're ramming even with the extended range....

[Shadow0000]

@Shadow: Did you armed all of GTVA bombers with anti-subsystem weapons (I mean big bombs. and Inferno "maxim" cannon analogue)?

Nope, I was going to use the "Hastor" (Maxim Adv), there was also the powerful "Ripper" (Jotun D.H. exclusive), but as I started a full blockade of fighters and cruisers before the Gigas (2 cruisers, 1 corvette, 1 destoyer, 1 Armitaya, the the Gigas), I trew back to the Prometheus because the Maxim is worthless to denfend yourself, the damn Gaganas can use the "Prometheus Advanced" they can blow fighters and defend really easily.

I trew back because I don't wanted to use the best of the best, but the Shivans are using the best of the best (in R1), so I didn't know...

BTW what is the range of URed? does it's bigger than Apothes 15-20 Km? if not, then why not to use small (6-8) fleet of those to do a precision strike (just like SoL gate assault mission in R1) against it's beam turrets (even better with coordinated bomber attack in the same time)?

It is supposed to be a side attack, the URed and SubSpace Rift can be only fired forward, so by the time the Gigas has rotated to fire it, it will be destroyed...
The Apothess is too weak is HitPoints barely reach 200,000 and is a Destroyer that can't defend itself no more than 30 seconds against the wortest bomber class. They won't stand a chance against the gigas by themselves, but can be used as a sniper for destroying the Beam Turrets if they are covered by a bigger ship. (as I am doing)

------------------------------------------------------------------

I was doing this (I'll better finish S:AH than doing this):

Alpha: 4 SOB Jotun D.H. / Prometheus & Executioners (Disable Left SBF turrets)
Beta: 4 SOF Chaos / Prometheus & Vortex, Arrow (cover Alpha)
Gamma: 4 EAB Gaganas / Prometheus Advanced & Hell Fire (Disable Right SBF turrets)
Delta: 4 GTF Alves / Prometheus & Vortex, Arrow (cover Gamma)
Kappa: 4 VIF Reshef / Prometheus & Vortex, Arrow (2 Protect Beta, if Beta dies then guard Alpha, the other 2 guard
Delta, if Delta dies then guard Gamma). (I need to add a Vasudan wing, the other fighters aren't too good, but the Reshef it is maybe too good with it's AB capabilities)

The enemies fighters and bombers were a lot, but the most powerful are deployed from the Gigas. (I could write this, but it will be too big)

If we blow the Engines, then the Gigas isn't supposed to rotate, right ? (I won't do that anyways)

[Kie99]

The Nyarlothep was considerably more powerful offensively than The Lucifer.  It had lateral LReds, either BFReds or LReds on the front and an SRed on the back.

[Woomeister]

and our Lucifer exceeds that

[Dark Hunter]

Scary...

[Shadow0000]

The Nyarlothep was considerably more powerful offensively than The Lucifer.  It had lateral LReds, either BFReds or LReds on the front and an SRed on the back.

Anyways, 6 Reactors and no Shields, in any case it was to be expected from the Nyarlothep...

and our Lucifer exceeds that

The same here (no shield...). The lightning effect on the Lucifer beams is really good, something that will make the beams between species and ships have more variation.