Author Topic: SP2 bloat  (Read 4746 times)

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Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
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I'm just bitter Gravis and Aureal went out of business, because as others have said, there are NO alternatives now :(
There's still a loose hope that nVidia might try to enter Creative's turf with a successor of SoundStorm. I wish they'd do that, soon.

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
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What happened to Gravis and Aureal? I almost never hear of these companies, except when I am trying to configure a DOS game.....
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
I don't know much of Gravis' history, I think the company just couldn't compete, besides sound cards Gravis also manufactured gaming peripherals. Aureal was bought by Creative.

 

Offline jr2

  • The Mail Man
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  • It's prounounced jayartoo 0x6A7232
    • Steam
I'm another one that had problems w/ the Creative web drivers on my Live! 5.1 : in two words - DOESN'T WORK.  Okay, two words and a contraction.  I finally got them to work and pretty much just hope I never have to re-install XP, as the stupid drivers will just say "no Creative hardware detected" and close.  I forget how I got it working.  Anyways, I was going to ask if there were any really nice soundcards out there that have the features of Creative w/out the stinking bugs... I guess not, huh?

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
I remember that problem when I still had my Live! Value card, they still have not fixed it? Anyway, the solution is to install drivers manually for the card through device manager, reboot and run the setup which will then install rest of the drivers such as SB16 emulation driver.

 

Offline jr2

  • The Mail Man
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  • It's prounounced jayartoo 0x6A7232
    • Steam
I'll have to try that next time XP crashes on me & I have to re-install... although, it may be that that is what I ended up doing anyways... but thanks, this way I won't have to find out all over again.

 

Offline CP5670

  • Dr. Evil
  • Global Moderator
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Quote
Reverb on midis, I don't know if it can be done or not.  I remember using my old Audigy, there was an EAX panel or something, that allowed you to select an input, apply reverb/echo/EAXpreset to it, then save the settings to a preset file.  Unfortunately, I dont think the X-Fi has that.  Try looking in the Soundfont manager, and/or in the 3D Midi player.  I think you can add effects there, and it *might* be able to apply your changes globally, so you wont have to use thier goofy looking software.

I've  had no problems on my system, and I think it's a great card.  I think the popping/crackling problems happen mainly on Nforce4 boards, instead of the VIA boards, which is what I have.  I've had mine since January, so I'm thinking if it doesnt start going out anytime soon, it'll last for quite a while.  My Audigy 1 still works fine, but the drivers provided for it on XP are terrible.  98's drivers are a lot better, as this card was released back when 98 was still the hot home OS to use...  Oh well.

BTW, if you do get a pair of DT-770's, you should notice a difference between cards.  The X-Fi is quieter than the Audigy, background noise wise.  No strange hissing or humming.

I searched around a bit and it looks a lot of people are complaining about the same thing on the Creative forums; the reverb is there but it's highly muted and hard to make out at even the highest settings. Creative, as usual, is apparently ignoring the problem.

I haven't run into any of the crackling problems with the X-fi and I have an nforce4 board.

The Audigy 2 installed without any problems on my other machine, but I have SP1 on there. The trend with Creative seems to be that their cards work great on the current Windows version at the time of their release, but trying to get them to work on any subsequent version is a total crap shoot. I hope this card will be compatible with Vista, but I think that might be too much to expect from Creative. :p

As for the hissing and whining effects, I used to get that on the Audigy 2 that if I used the front audio ports on my case (connected to the white J1 port on the card) instead of the ones on the card itself, and seemingly also if I used an Asus motherboard. When I switched boards and started using the rear ports, these weird background noises went away.

The general sound quality seems to differ mainly with very low and very high frequency sounds. The Audigy 2 sounded a bit distorted to me with some types of loud, bassy noises in music (on a DT250), but the X-fi has no such problems.

Quote
I'm another one that had problems w/ the Creative web drivers on my Live! 5.1 : in two words - DOESN'T WORK.  Okay, two words and a contraction.  I finally got them to work and pretty much just hope I never have to re-install XP, as the stupid drivers will just say "no Creative hardware detected" and close.  I forget how I got it working.  Anyways, I was going to ask if there were any really nice soundcards out there that have the features of Creative w/out the stinking bugs... I guess not, huh?

heh, the Live 5.1 drivers in XP are simply horrendous. They half worked for me a few years ago, but whenever I played any EAX enabled game, it completely broke the audio output and I had to totally remove and then reinstall the drivers to get any sound back. This procedure had become almost a daily ritual for me at one point, as it took me a long time to isolate all the games that were causing problems and fully disable any EAX in them.

There are no such problems with the 98/ME drivers, however. I have this card in my old game computer (which runs ME) for its SB16 emulation, which works great on old motherboards. It also supports reverb on midis.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2006, 01:26:57 am by CP5670 »

 

Offline Nix

  • 28
  • In the morning!
Quote
My Audigy 1 still works fine, but the drivers provided for it on XP are terrible.

If it did everything right with no issues, it wouldn't be a Creative driver.

We need a fan-modded driver set like the Omega drivers for ATI users, as an alternative.  I just think that Creative is totally anal about giving out thier software for people to modify.  If they'd release beta sets to the public, and allow people to modify that code, at least there'd be an alternative to use rather than the only one available driver from Creative that may or may not work.  For me, the X-Fi drivers are good enough to do anything I do audio wise.  Digging through the behemoth thread over at creative, apparently most of the time being spent on driver creation has been put into creating X-Fi drivers for Vista, so it will have full "compatibility" when it comes out.  So there might be hope for Vista and the X-Fi.  I'm sure that Microsoft will have Microsoft-provided drivers for the Audigy or 10K series chipsets built-in to the OS, and I'm sure that at this point I'd rather use those than any provided from Creative.  Yes, that's how bad I think thier drivers really are, because I'm an anti-microsoft-driver guy, but Creative can't support anything worth a damn..

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
We need a fan-modded driver set like the Omega drivers for ATI users, as an alternative.

There is such a project, the kX project.
http://www.driverheaven.net/forumdisplay.php?f=67
http://kxproject.lugosoft.com/

No EAX or X-Fi support though.

 

Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
  • 210
My desktop has a live card. If you don't install the Creative drivers first, then they will give you big problems (like random BSOD's).
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

Brain I/O error
Replace and press any key

 
 :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Am I the only one who hasn't had a system crippled by the SB Live! 5.1?
'And anyway, I agree - no sig images means more post, less pictures. It's annoying to sit through 40 different sigs telling about how cool, deadly, or assassin like a person is.' --Unknown Target

"You know what they say about the simplest solution."
"Bill Gates avoids it at every possible opportunity?"
-- Nuke and Colonol Drekker

 

Offline Nix

  • 28
  • In the morning!
You're not, if it was a Windows 98 system.  The only reason why I was using an Audigy in the first place is that the card's left output mysteriously died, and I couldn't fix it.  It's still sitting in a box somewhere.  I LOVED the SB LIVE! card that I had. I think it was the original 256 version, which could be bumped up to 512K by a driver update.  I dunno about that, but I thought it was a pretty nice card for its time.
Though.. the A3D cards which were out around the time of the Live was, had better, much much better virtual sound features than EAX at the time.  EAX still drives me nuts unless it's applied correctly...

 
Windows XP. 98SE has its own problems on this machine.
'And anyway, I agree - no sig images means more post, less pictures. It's annoying to sit through 40 different sigs telling about how cool, deadly, or assassin like a person is.' --Unknown Target

"You know what they say about the simplest solution."
"Bill Gates avoids it at every possible opportunity?"
-- Nuke and Colonol Drekker

 

Offline Cyker

  • 28
I don't know much of Gravis' history, I think the company just couldn't compete, besides sound cards Gravis also manufactured gaming peripherals. Aureal was bought by Creative.
What happened to Gravis and Aureal? I almost never hear of these companies, except when I am trying to configure a DOS game.....

Well, Gravis were at their peak during the DOS days - Back then,  'tho, we didn't have things like DirectX, so if you wanted to play a DOS game with sound that didn't come from the 'PC Bleeper', it pretty much HAD to have SoundBlaster compatibility.
The Gravis Ultrasounds didn't, and used a really ****ty emulation module which worked with almost nothing. Bit like the emulation Creative bundle with their older PCI sound cards now ;)
However, because the GUS was so awesome (It had multi-channel hardware mixing; The first consumer card I know of that had it!) they actually managed to get a fair bit of support. The Demoscene espescially loved the GUS; Almost all of the later 1990+ DOS demos had GUS support in some form.

But support was really what killed them, esp. when Creative released the AWE-32 (Also a very good card).
If Gravis had managed to survive to the Win95/DirectX era they would have been okay because driver support wouldn't have mattered, but they screwed themselves over and died before it came to pass :(
I had both the AWE and the GUS, but unfortunately they were both PnP which meant they were complete BASTARDS to get working together unless you hacked your own BIOS' PnP tables or could figure out how to force each card to assign itself a certain IRQ!


The Aureal Vortex2 was a legendary sound card chipset back in the day - It implemented HRTF (basically 3D sound simulation) years before Creative did, and the A3D2.0 API it used destroys EAX.
EAX is basically a set of parameters a game sends to the card to set Reverb. etc. at different levels - Very simplistic.
A3D2 took the actual 3D gemoetry and calculated reverb, reflections etc. from the scene!

I bought the SB Live! Platinum 5.1 I have now about the same time my friend got his Diamond Multimedia MX300 (It was quite weird actually because he also had a Video card (A 12MB Voodoo2) from Creative - At the time, this was a bit surreal because Creative had ALWAYS been the de facto sound card company and Diamond had always been the de facto video card company!! :lol: ).

We'd both gotten Half-Life 1 recently, and I gotta say, the difference was staggering.
With EAX, it isn't that much different from the software reverb HL uses if you turn off EAX - Going from a echoy pipe to an out door area will instantly change the reverb at the transition point; Pretty unnatural.
With the A3D2 it transitions the way you'd imagine it would for real.
It's hard to describe... The sound 'sounded' good in EAX, but 'felt' awesome on the A3D.

The only downside with the Vortex2 was DOS support - Basically it didn't have any worth talking about.

I never understood why they died; I blame it on Creative's inertia (They are like the Microsoft of the Soundcard world; They make half-assed buggy pieces of crap, but everybody still uses them so they are a semi-standard.)
Oddly, despite buying them out, Creative don't appear to have used much of the tech they would have gotten from A3D. I suspect it's because they were/are too thick to understand the code ;)


I'm just bitter Gravis and Aureal went out of business, because as others have said, there are NO alternatives now :(
There's still a loose hope that nVidia might try to enter Creative's turf with a successor of SoundStorm. I wish they'd do that, soon.
I hope so! The SoundStorm was a pretty good chipset - IMHO not as good in hardware as the latest Creative silicon at the time, but nVidia can a) Write drivers properly and b) QA Test their products properly, both things which Creative have never been able to do.

 

Offline Fury

  • The Curmudgeon
  • 213
Last week I troubled myself to send email to nVidia regarding the future of Soundstorm. Here's what I got back.

Quote
Thank you for your email.  While the NVIDIA Soundstorm APU received a tremendous fan base for delivering the first consumer dolby digital encoding solution to the desktop consumer market, unfortunately our motherboard manufacturing partners were not very interested at the time due to the higher costs it added to the motherboards.  NVIDIA has not plans to enter the descrete sound card add-on market so there are no plans to release another version of Soundstorm in the nearby future.  We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause.  C-Media provides an alternative with their CMI8768+ chip. Please look for sound cards from their add-in board partners featuring this chip for dolby digital encoding solutions for your PC.
So no new SoundStorm this year at the very least, maybe some day... In the meantive C-Media probably provides the best alternative chips, like the CMI8768+ mentioned in the quote. Other decent chips are CMI8770 and CMI8788. Probably the most famous sound card with one of these three C-Media chips is the HDA X-Plosion 7.1.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hda+x-plosion+7.1+review