Author Topic: So much for being "submissive"  (Read 4652 times)

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Offline Mefustae

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
Hmmm, I think i'm getting it... it looks like 'nein' means 'no', and 'pecenipicek' looks like it could be some sort of space-ship...

 

Offline AlphaOne

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
or he was just refering to pecenipicek as  the one who needs errrrr........a cold shower...
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Offline karajorma

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
females do not become lubricated when they are not aroused.


That's a given but consent and arousal are very different things as I have already stated. Arousal is a physiological response and has nothing to do with whether the woman consented or not.

Your comments only make sense if you're assuming that rape = stranger rape. This is not the case and nowhere in my post did I narrow things down to that definition. So you can see that your points are already completely invalidate in the case of rapes carried out with the use of date rape drugs like Rohypnol. A woman under the effect of a date rape drug can get aroused and climax yet still have not given consent. In fact arousal is common in the majority of cases. Similarly they don't apply to cases where a person lacks the mental capacity to give or deny consent. Again arousal can occur when  the victim is mentally disabled but in these cases it is still rape.



However given that you probably weren't counting those cases and were mearly talking about male on female date or stranger rape. Even in the definition of rape you seem to be using it is not correct to say that women do not get wet.

Quote
From "Understanding Sexual Violence:"Prosecuting Adult Rape and Sexual Assault Cases

Is Lubrication The First Sign Of The Human Sexual Response In Women?

This was once thought to be true. However, the amount of research conducted in the area of human sexual response has significantly increased and we now know that this is not necessarily so. Lubrication can be an element of sexual response, but it can also occur independently as a purely automatic physical reaction. It is important to recognize that a consensual sexual response includes physical and psychological components.
An automatic physiological response is an involuntary bodily response to a sensory stimulus that may result in increased blood flow to the pelvic area. The stimulus is most often tactile and can be anywhere on the continuum from the slight brushing of underwear to forceful pushing against the perineum to effect penile penetration.

Lubrication Does NOT Necessarily Mean Consent
Two examples:
Case 1: Strangers
The human body is prepared to respond to the stimuli it receives through the five senses. In the case of a stranger who breaks into a woman's home, attacks her and begins to touch or press her genitals, in many situations her body will automatically respond to that stimulus. Blood will begin to move to the pelvic vessels and she will start to lubricate. She is having a purely automatic physiological response.
It is even possible that fear may increase the automatic response. In times of fear and threat of bodily harm, the sympathetic nervous system becomes activated and mobilizes the "fight, flight or freeze" responses. These responses put the individual in a survival mode. When this happens, neurochemicals are released that stimulate the body to send blood to the large muscle groups and the pelvis, as well as increasing blood pressure, respiration and heart rate. The increase in blood flow to the lower part of the body may further increase vasocongestion and result in more lubrication. This is an area of ongoing research.

Case 2: Parties have had some consensual intimate contact

The woman experiences both automatic physiological arousal and subjective arousal -- a positive emotional response -- and these reinforce each other. Her body begins to lubricate as part of a consensual sexual response.
If penetration is demanded against her will, her psychology changes. Fear, anger or disbelief disrupts the positive emotional response. But this change in emotional response does not disrupt the automatic physiological response.
The woman's vaginal vault does not dry up when her partner demands intercourse. This does not mean that she continued to respond to him sexually. The lubricating fluid was already present, it began as part of the consensual sexual response. It does not shut down. The body continues its automatic physiological response to the physical stimulus.

That's from a guide on how to prosecute rapists and prepare for a trial.


that makes it so rape is more physically damaging than it otherwise would be - the woman is almost certainly not lubricated, her muscles are not loosned up to accept the penis into the vagina either


Those factors can result in damage to the vagina but you're incorrect in assuming that this is always or even normally the case.

Quote from: the same source
Contrary to many jurors', prosecutors' and judges' expectations, in the vast majority of rape cases there are no physical injuries. In the 1992 Rape in America study - cited as the most reliable national sample - 70% of victims reported no physical injuries and 24% reported minor physical injuries. In fact, the studies show that only a very small percentage of sexual assault victims sustain injuries so serious that they require hospitalization and death is rare.

Just in case you're wondering why there isn't damage.

Quote
Factors That Influence The Potential For Injury To The Genitalia

•lubrication of the vaginal vault (natural or artificial)
•positioning
•participation (active or passive)
•condition of the genital structures
•health and developmental status


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Offline Kazan

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
true - i wasn't including roofies or alcohol drugging situations in "rape" because i typically refer to them as "date-rape" more specifically

my bad
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Offline karajorma

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
The points I made don't just refer to date rape though. Stranger rape can still cause arousal.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
Quote
This is an area of ongoing research.

Hmm.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
Into arousal rather than rape I'd imagine :D

I can't imagine how you could possibly get funding otherwise.
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Offline aldo_14

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
Into arousal rather than rape I'd imagine :D

I can't imagine how you could possibly get funding otherwise.

Probably have to mug people for it........

 

Offline IceFire

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
Not a very good relationship there...threatened because one does not do something.  Not good.

This is why relationships are so hard to come by.
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Offline Kosh

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
Not a very good relationship there...threatened because one does not do something.  Not good.

This is why relationships are so hard to come by.

Like I said: The standard for a good man in China is one who is willing to tolerate anything from his wife/girlfriend. While using a sword to make him do it is an extreme example, the idea is still the same (and there are plenty of less extreme examples). Unless you are willing to be the submissive one, don't bother going for a real chinese girl because they are ALL like this.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
Considering that they know that there are about 40m men who can't find a wife due to the short sightedness of some families in thinking that male issue was more worthwhile it's hardly surprising.
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Offline IceFire

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Re: So much for being "submissive"
Not a very good relationship there...threatened because one does not do something.  Not good.

This is why relationships are so hard to come by.

Like I said: The standard for a good man in China is one who is willing to tolerate anything from his wife/girlfriend. While using a sword to make him do it is an extreme example, the idea is still the same (and there are plenty of less extreme examples). Unless you are willing to be the submissive one, don't bother going for a real chinese girl because they are ALL like this.
No idea...never dated a Chineese girl.  Submission is not something I do very well.  I get extremely angry (and I'm a very calm person) when people start telling me to do stuff or start trying to manipulate.  I don't handle that stuff well.  I'm happy to help and I'm happy to be asked but I don't do orders.
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