[Ford Prefect]

bad Visual Image. DAMN YOU.

What are you talking about, man? The House of Representatives is hotter than the Playboy Mansion.

[Ace]

On the flip side, private does not always equal better.

Anyone in California when they deregulated the power companies can tell you that...

Except deregulation wasn't the root cause. IIRC, it is difficult to build any new powerplants because of the absurdly lengthy process of approvals. And of course ENRON's jacking up the power prices didn't help.

ENRON's playing with prices was directly tied to deregulation, so yes deregulation was the root cause.

Of course what it sounds like many want is deregulation of energy prices as well as deregulation of powerplant designs as well. Let the market decide is all good and fine until powerplants start exploding due to sub-par construction, which is why the 'lengthy process of approvals' was there to begin with.

[redmenace]

No, it maybe the root cause of allowing them to charge high prices for transmitting power into California. That, iirc, did not cause the rolling blackouts. But, regulation of energy prices is just as insane not to mention unreasonable building regulations.

[Kosh]

No, it maybe the root cause of allowing them to charge high prices for transmitting power into California. That, iirc, did not cause the rolling blackouts. But, regulation of energy prices is just as insane not to mention unreasonable building regulations.

If they were still regulated, they could never have done what they did. They deliberately caused the blackouts, if there was regulatory oversight it would not have happened. Period.

[redmenace]

Got proof that they diliberatly caused black outs? Period.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis
In the 1970's, California had decided to end the development of nuclear energy. Following this decision, California failed to develop sufficient in-state electricity generation capacity and came to depend in part on the import of excess hydroelectricity from the Pacific Northwest states of Oregon and Washington. Legislation relating to clean air standards resulted in in-state electricity generation depending on natural gas, which linked together the gas and electricity markets. Rapid growth in demand for electricity, resulting from strong economic growth, ate into any excess capacity remaining in the system. In the summer of 2000 two events combined to worsen the situation: a drought in the North West states, and a large increase in the price of natural gas. In addition, the route where power was sent south, Path 15 had a major bottleneck (congestion) point which limited the amount of power that could be sent south to 3,900 MW.

Oversight or not, this would have happened. And the price caps in the deregulation bill for incumbents made it impossible to pass of the costs.

and is this is what gives you proof: "There is a single connection between northern and southern California's power grids. I heard that Enron traders purposely overbooked that line, then caused others to need it. Next, by California's free-market rules, Enron was allowed to price-gouge at will."[5] That was an allegation with out real proof.

But I need to finish reading the article as well.

[Kosh]

Got proof that they diliberatly caused black outs? Period.

Yeah, I believe they called it "Operation Death Star" or something to that effect. There have been recorded conversations of Enron executives bragging about what they were doing.

[redmenace]

That alone wouldn't cause the blackouts. It was only to reap further benefits and profits from California. At the same time, it was also poor planning having only one connection between north and south. Regaurdless, it was illegal and unethical.

[Kosh]

That alone wouldn't cause the blackouts. It was only to reap further benefits and profits from California. At the same time, it was also poor planning having only one connection between north and south. Regaurdless, it was illegal and unethical.

Maybe it was poorly planned, but on the otherhand Enron did purposely overload that line. After the Enron scandal was over, does California still have rolling blackouts?

[Janos]

Got proof that they diliberatly caused black outs? Period.

Yeah, I believe they called it "Operation Death Star" or something to that effect. There have been recorded conversations of Enron executives bragging about what they were doing.

Source.

[redmenace]

That alone wouldn't cause the blackouts. It was only to reap further benefits and profits from California. At the same time, it was also poor planning having only one connection between north and south. Regaurdless, it was illegal and unethical.

No, but if I recall,


Maybe it was poorly planned, but on the otherhand Enron did purposely overload that line. After the Enron scandal was over, does California still have rolling blackouts?

No, there was manipulation of the market, which was determined to be possible from poor planning and market design. Enron and other energy companies were manipulating the energy spot market for power. Meaning that there was a shortage and the power had to be purchased from outside the state for an inflated and manipulated price. Price caps also made it impossible to pass these costs to consumers. This was not really the cause of the blackouts but explains why they stopped once price manipulation was cracked down on. However, these black outs were a result of numerous factors coinciding.

[redmenace]

Got proof that they diliberatly caused black outs? Period.

Yeah, I believe they called it "Operation Death Star" or something to that effect. There have been recorded conversations of Enron executives bragging about what they were doing.

Source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

[Janos]

Got proof that they diliberatly caused black outs? Period.

Yeah, I believe they called it "Operation Death Star" or something to that effect. There have been recorded conversations of Enron executives bragging about what they were doing.

Source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

The Death Star strategy was the name Enron gave to their practice of shuffling energy around the California power grid to receive payments from the state for "relieving congestion." According to the company's own memo they would be paid "for moving energy to relieve congestion, without actually moving any energy or relieving any congestion."

For example, if the California power grid was congested with energy flowing south, Enron would schedule energy to be transmitted north to Oregon. They would receive a payment from California for apparently relieving congestion on the grid. Then Enron would schedule the energy to be transferred back to its point of origin, but not through California. Ultimately the energy would end up right back where it started, and Enron would be paid by California without actually putting any electricity on their grid.

laffo

[redmenace]

Never said Enron wasn't smart and enterprising.

[Kosh]

Never said Enron wasn't smart and enterprising.

Smart enough to enterprise their way to bankruptcy and criminal trials.

[redmenace]

Never said Enron wasn't smart and enterprising.

Smart enough to enterprise their way to bankruptcy and criminal trials.

Crime never pays.

[redmenace]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkjuAYpxG9A&NR

"...his excelancy" ROFL