[Bob-san]

Spam should be diverted a bit... perhaps we should turn the Padded Cell into the various-flames-on-good-topics section? Prune out what is definately a flame, ignore what is not, keep an eye on what could be considered a flame. I've probably flamed a few times; generally I have nothing to say. My own quote; silence is better than stupidity.

[Mr. Vega]

The problem with that is that a more stringent system of locking threads in HardLight itself would still cause complaints. There really was no way to bring about change without annoying people I think.

I do know that quite a lot of people have suggested that we have a debates forum, specifically requested it, in fact, it was quite a common suggestion back when Taris and I were made moderators, which was last time it was being a problem.

Yes, we could have kept putting pressure on in the main forum but that, to me, is even more of a 'dictatorship' than splitting the forums to try and meet everyones needs without anyone having to turn into a lock-monkey, and the inevitable accusations of trying to stifle members' rights to an opinion.

Take the Evolution thread as an example, for the main part there was a lot of heated, but very intelligent debate going on in there, with the occasional comment that wasn't well thought out and seemed to merely be flaming. Should that thread be locked? Should I censor out all the stuff that I consider 'crap'? Who's to say my choice of what is 'crap' is going to be any less biased than, say, Goobers or Aldo's? That's more responsibilty than I'd be comfortable with. If the thread degenerates into a total row, then fine, I'll lock it, but personally, I prefer not slamming the door unless it really needs it.

I do have concerns that the Padded Cell is just going to turn into a train-wreck, there are those who are just using it for zany, or silly stuff, which is fine, and quite fun, and at least keeps it out of the pub, but there are also those who seem to think that it means you can insult other people in there. I think that's a trend that should be discouraged.

Being stricter for a time is certainly less drastic and less likely to cause discontent (especially that noone really is disputing that there was a problem) than the partitioning and killing post counts that is being pursued now.

[Mr. Vega]

Speaking of which, if the meeting hall is all dignified debate, can we get some post counts here?

[Goober5000]

The Padded Cell has been merged back into The Pub for now.  We may reconsider it in the future, but some of the admins didn't want that drastic of a change yet.

And posts have been re-enabled in this forum.

[vyper]

This is going to be my last comment on the issue:

I think you're trying too hard guys. If people are going to mod, they're going to do it because they actually want to; Not because it's the only way to get post count increases, or because off-topic chat is hidden at the bottom of the page. You're trying to artificially create activity in the community. If the era of "Big Modding" is over then so be it, we had one hell of a run back in the day.

[Turey]

I am now almost perfectly happy with the layout. Nice work Admins! 

Community Projects could be moved above the General Gaming, but that's not such a big deal.

[MP-Ryan]

The new arrangement didn't incense me all that much, but one thing I would like to point out:

If you're not a member of The Meeting Hall, it's not visible to you.  Meaning, there are probably a number of people (and especially new users) who are unaware of its existence.

An important element in debate is diversity.  It's fine to screen people (especially to remove the useless ones) but perhaps it makes more sense to screen people OUT rather than in.  Personally, I think it would make more sense to give everyone access to this particular forum by default, then pluck the troublesome users from it.  I know I was a reader and member on HLP for a few months before I ever ventured into the old "Hard Light" forum.  I'd hate to see new and intelligent positions excluded from a debates folder simply because they aren't aware of it.

Take it for what it's worth, but I think a policy of inclusiveness that plucks problematic members is probably a better way of organizing a debates folder than a policy of exclusiveness to begin with.  It scares me that this folder may end up a hiding ground for a bunch of the maturer fellows around here to ramble on in some elitist club.

Just my $0.02 - $0.08 CAD (accounting for the exchange rate )

[Flipside]

I'm actually inclined to agree with that point of view. but it would need a high level of moderation at first, that much I know. I suppose those who get kicked out can always apply for entrance again after, say, 2 weeks of good behaviour in the pub.

[Nuclear1]

I third the notion.

[Mr. Vega]

Fourth.

[Goober5000]

Problem is, the forum is not only restricted-access, but opt-in.  Some people don't actually care to visit the debates.

Also, there's the small difficulty of manually adding 3000 members.  At least I can handle 4-5 PMs per day.

[MP-Ryan]

Problem is, the forum is not only restricted-access, but opt-in.  Some people don't actually care to visit the debates.

Also, there's the small difficulty of manually adding 3000 members.  At least I can handle 4-5 PMs per day.

Well, two possible options then:
1.  Can you make it open-access for all members, and then start excluding the troublemakers?
2.  Or, can it at least be visible for all HLP members (even make the whole section read-only but visible to all) and then manually add people who request it?

#2 might actually be the better option.  Let anyone who wants to read it, but make them request access to post here.  If, of course, the forum engine lets you do that.

[Inquisitor]

That seems an extremely reasonable course of action. People who can't see it will just start their debates in the "wrong place" if this forum is to persist.

I take it this forum has no bulk member admin tools eh? I know phpBB needed a third party add-on to do bulk operations like that. Anywho, that's technical tidbits, I digress.

[Goober5000]

Well, one thing I could do would be to run an SQL UPDATE query to bulk-add everybody.

I'm not sure if I could make the forums read-only to non-members.  I'd have to check.

[WMCoolmon]

I've been one of the advocates for a political forum since the topic came up, and this seems to fit that niche nicely, so...good stuff.

[Desert Tyrant]

Just my two cents:

I like most of the changes. Moving the GenDis down, creating a separate place for civilized discussion (here), etc.

There's some things I personally would have done different. Move the FreeSpace section above the general games section, merge the pub and the padded cell, etc.

However, like everything else in life, you take the good with the bad. I'm not an Admin, and I trust the judgment of those that are.

My concerns are that it's simply going to make work and bad-blood, since Mods are going to see a thread in the Pub which has turned into a debate, and move it, thus possibly making it unavailable to the people involved in the debate, and annoying them.

The problem with that is that the Pub debates will be significantly different from the debates here. Just like in real life, debates will take place in the Pub, but they'll be much more rowdy and much closer to degrading into personal attacks than debates in the Meeting Hall. I don't think that threads should be moved from the Pub to here simply because they're debates. I think the debates started in the Pub should stay in the Pub.

However, threads started here that degenerate into personal attacks or other Pub-like behavior should be moved to the Pub.

I think the biggest distinction between a Pub debate and a Meeting Hall debate is that a debate in the Meeting Hall should make you go "hrmmm" and write a thoughtful reply, while the same may not always be said for Pub debates.

The changes arent all bad, really, just the location, but it's not really an annoyance.

[Polpolion]

I knew this thread would pick up steam. I really like this place.

Please don't change it or anything.

[jr2]

Well, one thing I could do would be to run an SQL UPDATE query to bulk-add everybody.

I'm not sure if I could make the forums read-only to non-members.  I'd have to check.

...well?