[Dark_4ce]

I'm telling you, my idea of a Quantum Microwave machine is coming to pass! It will cook your food before you place it in the oven!   Muahahaha!!!

[General Battuta]

I just want to back up Herra Tohtori. Scuddie, you're dead wrong - but I don't blame you; this is one of those things that doesn't really make much sense unless you do the math.

It's actually fairly basic; you only need some Newtonian physics, a bit about the Michelson-Morley experiment, and a good grasp of algebra. You can derive the infamous E=MC^2 and the basics of special relativity by yourself, if you've got a good textbook to guide you.

[Bobboau]

By the way, the time dilatation is not only a visual effect, but it is a real effect. The time is indeed going slower in a system that is moving faster. This has been confirmed with satellite experiments.

* Takes out popcorn and watches the debate with a grin *

Tell me, were these satellite experiments using a system that was moving closer or further from their line-of-sight?

* Adds a new variable to the equation with a grin *

they put a clock synchronized to one on earth on a satellite then brought it down and the times were different. way different.

[Mefustae]

By the way, the time dilatation is not only a visual effect, but it is a real effect. The time is indeed going slower in a system that is moving faster. This has been confirmed with satellite experiments.

* Takes out popcorn and watches the debate with a grin *

Tell me, were these satellite experiments using a system that was moving closer or further from their line-of-sight?

* Adds a new variable to the equation with a grin *

they put a clock synchronized to one on earth on a satellite then brought it down and the times were different. way different.

Yeah, and they used atomic clocks. So they were all, like, atomic... and stuff. Yeah.

[TrashMan]

There are more things in heaven and earth then are dreamt of in all philosophy

How true Petrach

Methinks the more we discover the more fangled and confusing it will get, till we reach a point where nothing will make sense to us...too complex for our meager brain to phantom

[Mika]

Posted by: TrashMan
Insert Quote
There are more things in heaven and earth then are dreamt of in all philosophy

How true Petrach

Methinks the more we discover the more fangled and confusing it will get, till we reach a point where nothing will make sense to us...too complex for our meager brain to phantom

That is already old news. See "Quantum mechanics", "Particle Physics" and "Quantum Electro Dynamics" for a reference.

Mika

[Scuddie]

By the way, the time dilatation is not only a visual effect, but it is a real effect. The time is indeed going slower in a system that is moving faster. This has been confirmed with satellite experiments.

* Takes out popcorn and watches the debate with a grin *

Tell me, were these satellite experiments using a system that was moving closer or further from their line-of-sight?

* Adds a new variable to the equation with a grin *

they put a clock synchronized to one on earth on a satellite then brought it down and the times were different. way different.

So the power went out again...  Big deal, I get that all the time .

But seriously, sending a satellite with a clock that was sync'd with Earth in and out of outer space wouldn't cause that big a difference, unless it was the nature of the clock in question.  How long was it up there, and when was it done?  Depending on the timeframe, it is to be expected.  Every clock has a certain degree of inaccuracy.  You have any linkage to show the info?

[DiabloRojo]

Scuddie:  Please see this article.
The good meaty stuff is about half-way down, starting with the following paragraph:

'Atomic clocks on board GPS satellites are stable "within 1 part in 10^12," says Lute Maleki who supervises JPL's Quantum Sciences and Technology Group. That means an observer would have to watch a GPS clock for 10^12 seconds (32,000 years) to see it gain or lose a single second. "To guide spacecraft from planet to planet we use clocks that are even better -- good to 1 part in 1014," he added.'

[Nuke]

timing is very important in space flight. being even a fraction of a second off on your burn time would mean possibly being thousands of miles off course. so it makes sense that theese clocks are really accurate. if the the velocity of theese clocks are causing then to tick slower. then nasa needs to start (or are probibly already) using time dialation as a variable in their formulae.

[General Battuta]

Scuddie, you might be interested to learn that various everyday phenomenon only work because of Einstein's theory of relativity.

One good example is GPS devices, which must compensate for relativistic time dilation when relaying signals between themselves and satellites. GPS doesn't work without compensating for relativistic temporal effects.

This is a hands-on, practical demonstration of relativity.

http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html

Check that out, it's a great explanation. And no, it cannot be explained by technical glitches or inaccuracies in the clocks.

If you still don't buy it, I'll be happy to provide you with further explanation. It's actually very cool once you understand it.

[Bobboau]

But seriously, sending a satellite with a clock that was sync'd with Earth in and out of outer space wouldn't cause that big a difference, unless it was the nature of the clock in question.  How long was it up there, and when was it done?  Depending on the timeframe, it is to be expected.  Every clock has a certain degree of inaccuracy.  You have any linkage to show the info?

no, seriously the time was slower, it DID cause that big of a difference, moving faster, and being in a gravity feild slow time down. they are atomic clocks, they are about the most accurate things in exsistance, and if it was just inaccuracy we wouldn't have been able to predict exactly how much they were going to be off from one and other before the experiment was preformed. time slows for you when you move faster.

[Scuddie]

OK, so which clock was ahead?  The one on earth or the satellite?  Based on what you said, it means that the faster you go in your own relative speed, the slower you are to everyone else?  That essentially means that the faster you are, the slower you are, and it's influenced by gravity.  Doesn't make sense to me.  Either you left something out, I'm not reading you correctly, or my idea that speed could modify space (not time) is correct.

[Mefustae]

You're telling us you haven't heard of the Twin Paradox??

[General Battuta]

If you launch a clock into orbit, bring it back down to Earth, and compare it to a clock that's been on Earth the whole time (and thus moving slower), the clock that was in orbit will be behind.

You are correct. As you go faster and faster, you will perceive time in the universe around you to speed up - if you are going fast enough, thousands of years of outside time could pass in what seems to be only a single year for you.

A clock that goes very fast and is then brought back to Earth will be significantly behind Earth clocks.

Think of it this way:

Everything moves at the exact same speed through space and time. To move faster through space, you've got to sacrifice some of your motion through time.

[Bobboau]

actually gravity has the same effect as motion, so the clock in orbit might be ahead, it depends on the orbit, if it's a low altitude orbit then it would be moving fast and have highish gravity so time would flow slower, if it's a high altitude orbit, then it's far enough away from the planit the gravity it experiences is so low the time would be flowing faster there than on the surface of the planet.

this article lists a number of experiments related to time dilation, mostly from velocity but also from gravity.

[Scuddie]

Hmmm...  Based on that information, it means black holes are simply masses which distort time so much that it cannot change velocity, but also cannot grow in volume because while mass is acquired, time hasn't been able to reflect the change in growth, so the mass in inversely proportional to the difference of tim...  AHHHHHH!!!

* Scuddie  feels his brain explode

[General Battuta]

Even physicists still have trouble with black holes, but not too much trouble.

They have some very odd properties, it's true.

[Bobboau]

our current laws of physics stop working inside the event horizon of a black hole, but up until that point they work pretty good.