[shiv]

Hey!

I've got a small, maybe a bit sentimental request Could you implement back FS1 style nebula generator into a FRED and recent builds? I guess a lot of people would like to see them back in custom campaigns and in fsport

[Solatar]

I wouldn't mind having this put back in, but only if most of the code is already there. I don't want this interfering with new awesome stuff.

[taylor]

All of the code is pretty much there.  Only minor changes would be required to get it working again (just a couple hours work probably).  I already got it all working when I did the icculus.org FS1 backport for Linux/OS X, so everything that we need is already in the code.

The problem is just that it requires the old palette setup (the gamepalette*.pcx files) in order to work, and I hate that setup.  It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing to add that back in, but it's a very inflexible system and not all that mod friendly.  I would personally just like to work out a way to handle this without the need for external palette files and then re-code it using the new method.  Such work is pretty low priority though. 

[shiv]

All of the code is pretty much there.  Only minor changes would be required to get it working again (just a couple hours work probably).  I already got it all working when I did the icculus.org FS1 backport for Linux/OS X, so everything that we need is already in the code.

The problem is just that it requires the old palette setup (the gamepalette*.pcx files) in order to work, and I hate that setup.  It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing to add that back in, but it's a very inflexible system and not all that mod friendly.  I would personally just like to work out a way to handle this without the need for external palette files and then re-code it using the new method.  Such work is pretty low priority though. 

Couldn't we just create vp like "palette.vp" with fs1 gamepalettes? If someone would liek to use those palettes he would feel free to add this vp into game folder and enjoy old nebulas.

[Selectah]

All of the code is pretty much there. Only minor changes would be required to get it working again (just a couple hours work probably).  I already got it all working when I did the icculus.org FS1 backport for Linux/OS X, so everything that we need is already in the code.
[...]
Such work is pretty low priority though. 

B.. b... but, but, butbutbut.., if such is only "couple hours work", how can it be "pretty low priority"...? (!).. I guess the SCP would benefit from some stern project leadership.. 

Thing is; stuff that's quickly done is on the top of the agenda. (You can kinda compare it to the error in people's strategic thinking in drawn out RTS games. When faced with two broken/damaged units, most people start repairing the one that's most damaged. That's what I meant.)

Cordially,
~Selectah

[Flipside]

Thing is, there are skyboxes and things available now, I suspect by 'low priority' Taylor means that graphical effects such as shaders etc will take priority. Most of the skybox code seems to be becoming slowly redundant anyway, opinion is split over the 'motion blur' stars, and whilst LS's Nebulae are gorgeous, more and more people are reverting to pre-rendered images instead of the retail system for either FS1 or 2, Shadows of Lylat and BtRL both rely heavily on skymaps over the projected style of nebulae

[WMCoolmon]

Thing is; stuff that's quickly done is on the top of the agenda. (You can kinda compare it to the error in people's strategic thinking in drawn out RTS games. When faced with two broken/damaged units, most people start repairing the one that's most damaged. That's what I meant.)

Cordially,
~Selectah

Actually depending on the RTS game that makes sense. If the enemy could destroy the heavily damaged unit in one shot, they would halve the firepower arrayed against them very quickly. If, on the other hand, it took 2 shots to take out the more heavily damaged unit, the enemy would still take more damage (and possibly be destroyed) than if you repaired the less-heavily-damaged unit so it took 3 shots instead of 2 shots to destroy. Either way, it takes 4 shots to destroy your defenses, but in one case you've got 2x the firepower going half the time as opposed to 2x firepower one-quarter of the time.

But that's hardly relevant.

If people spent all their time implementing small features you would never have things like normal maps etc. People are much better at coming up with these great ideas, or ideas that sound great, that would "only" require a couple hours of work...and nobody will ever use outside of a couple "hey this is neat" missions. Normal mapping, on the other hand, instantly affects all FS2-based campaigns as soon as somebody makes the maps for the ship. Timewise it might take longer, but it has a lot bigger effect than implementing some old background art (That you could probably do a damn good recreation with PS instead).

[karajorma]

And that's before we get into the fact that the SCP are tired of implementing people's little ideas only to find no bugger wants to use them.

Unless FS1 Port want to use them adding the FS1 Nebulae is rather useless. And I haven't seen any posts from them saying they want this feature.

[Selectah]

Shalom Karajorma,

And that's before we get into the fact that the SCP are tired of implementing people's little ideas only to find no bugger wants to use them.

Are you serious?

Unless FS1 Port want to use them adding the FS1 Nebulae is rather useless. And I haven't seen any posts from them saying they want this feature.

No seriously, are you serious?

Cordially,
~Selectah

[karajorma]

Yeah I'm serious. As Flipside pointed out the majority of mods are moving towards Skyboxes instead of backgrounds.

There are tonnes of things that were implemented following a "Wouldn't it be nice if..." post which were never actually used. That's why a couple of years back the SCP shifted to a position of mainly adding stuff when a major project requested it or if the coder himself wanted to add the feature.

[Selectah]

M'kay, thanks for the elucidation, Karajorma.

Am I then right in assuming FSO's not as much owned by the community anymore, but by the coders? If that's so, it's no biggie, but I just thought I'd ask. Please don't take this the wrong way. And no, I am not deriding or denigrating FSO, I just don't use it.

Cordially,
~Selectah

[karajorma]

It's not so much a case of ownership. Simple fact is that the coders do the work of adding code to the game. We're not being paid for it and only do it as a hobby so it's up to us what we do. There's little that is more annoying to a coder than to spend days or weeks working on a feature only to have no one use it.

It would be like you releasing a campaign, having no one play it but still getting people complain at you that you should release more.

If someone wants a feature none of the coders are willing to work on they can always find someone outside of the SCP to add it.

[Selectah]

Cheers for the splanation, Karajorma.

Cordially,
~Selectah

[Solatar]

And that's before we get into the fact that the SCP are tired of implementing people's little ideas only to find no bugger wants to use them.

Unless FS1 Port want to use them adding the FS1 Nebulae is rather useless. And I haven't seen any posts from them saying they want this feature.

Good call, keep them out unless the aforementioned requirements are met (project or coder). With LS nebula and nice skyboxes, you're right: I'd probably only use it like...once for nostalgia.