[Bob-san]

Again, it's just easier to say PC P&C or Seasonic, though if I'm given a budget I usually look at FSP Supply as well, as they make good OEM units too.

Well, it's just misleading to say that "there are only two brands to buy from," especially since those two particular brands do not have the best deals in many price ranges. Except for that 500W one you mentioned, most of the Seasonic and PCP&C units are too expensive, with similar units (in some cases identical rebadges) often available cheaper.

Not really for PC P&C, they only have excellent warranty service, despite the fact that Seasonic has made about 3 lines for them.

Other than that, I'm not a huge fan of Channel Well Tech, so saying Corsair (while decent) isn't always the best. The VX450 is Seasonic, the TX650 is Seasonic, the HX520 is Seasonic, and the HX620 is Seasonic. On the other hand, the VX550 is Channel Well and the TX750 is also Channel Well. That means that the TX650 is the poor-man's HX620, only difference is the TX650 is not modular and costs a lot less.

Other than that, it's just too spotty for some manufacturers--a bunch of good units and a few bad ones--and they see "deal deal deal!" on the bad units and may grab one instead of the slightly-more-expensive but much better good unit.

When all else fails (or I get tired of repeating what's best that you can find), K.I.S.S.. FSP Fortron Supply, Seasonic, or PC Power & Cooling. FSP for budget (you get what you pay for, so they're best since if you spend $30-35 you get a 300W unit, if you spend $40-45 you get a 400W unit, &c), Seasonic or Seasonic-built for general quality (20% more expensive "for the watt" but also 5-year warranties and all good units), and PC Power & Cooling for high-end (though just about any 1-1.2kW power supply is at least decent, including all those off-brands).

You really have to watch for 350-850W units from off brands... they're most likely to die and take something along with it for the ride, especially if they are exaggerated crap in the first place.

[CP5670]

Not really for PC P&C, they only have excellent warranty service, despite the fact that Seasonic has made about 3 lines for them.

You're just being a fanboy now. Most of the other companies I brought up also have very good warranties and some also have CSRs on the major hardware forums, especially OCZ and Corsair. That isn't a good reason to pay more for anything.

PCP&C used to have some great deals a while ago, but the prices on all their units seem to have increased recently. Their 610W model is still a good buy but the others are a little too expensive now compared to similar models. And most of the Seasonics are slight ripoffs because you can get the same things cheaper as Corsair and PCP&C rebadges if you look around a bit.

Other than that, it's just too spotty for some manufacturers--a bunch of good units and a few bad ones--and they see "deal deal deal!" on the bad units and may grab one instead of the slightly-more-expensive but much better good unit.

I don't think any of the brands I mentioned have any current models that can be described as "spotty." The Seasonic-built units are excellent but are by no means "much better" than the others. If you need the absolute best voltage regulation anyway, you should go with a Zippy server unit, not a Seasonic.

[Bob-san]

Not really for PC P&C, they only have excellent warranty service, despite the fact that Seasonic has made about 3 lines for them.

You're just being a fanboy now. Most of the other companies I brought up also have very good warranties and some also have CSRs on the major hardware forums, especially OCZ and Corsair. That isn't a good reason to pay more for anything.

PCP&C used to have some great deals a while ago, but the prices on all their units seem to have increased recently. Their 610W model is still a good buy but the others are a little too expensive now compared to similar models. And most of the Seasonics are slight ripoffs because you can get the same things cheaper as Corsair and PCP&C rebadges if you look around a bit.

Other than that, it's just too spotty for some manufacturers--a bunch of good units and a few bad ones--and they see "deal deal deal!" on the bad units and may grab one instead of the slightly-more-expensive but much better good unit.

I don't think any of the brands I mentioned have any current models that can be described as "spotty." The Seasonic-built units are excellent but are by no means "much better" than the others. If you need the absolute best voltage regulation anyway, you should go with a Zippy server unit, not a Seasonic.

Good luck finding Zippy in the USA. I've been looking for a while--I can't find Zippy, I can't find Emacs. And for PC P&C, definitely only a few are even within "range" of the normal person. I swear by Seasonic--my uncle by PC P&C. Other than that, yeah most have decent warranties. But still, if you're telling someone to buy say Corsair, I'd always say Seasonic-built, as CWT-built are not as good quality. Even so, CWT does have some good-wattage units at good prices as well, but not all of the are best.

Besides--I generally look at other Seasonic-built units while looking at Seasonic-branded units... meaning I take a look through Antec and Corsair at the same time, as odds are they'll have the same or slightly better a deal. Other than that, I've not been able to beat Seasonic's OEM (SS-___ES) units often, other than the fact that they have two SATA connectors. Even so, building a new system with that 500ES, odds are you'll also get some molex-to-SATA dongles that'll work just fine.

I am quite a bit biased, though the positive side of it is I'm biased towards good build power supplies and against those that aren't quite as good, while still being about the same price.

That and NewEgg has a horrible time with all... 567 normal units plus 53 more server-specific units. I can't just set people loose and say look for this, and I even get overwhelmed--I can't research each and every unit to find out who made it, though often I can take a look at compare UL# of similar units.

I guess I generalize too much--I help out at another forum where there are countless other people who simply don't know what they're doing. Last correction I made was a Win Power 750W for like 30-35 GBP, switched out for a Corsair VX450 for about 38 GBP. It's not like the person's system would need it all--while Pentium D's are hot and hungry, they're not drawing 300W on their own. HD4850 runs about 120W max, plus say 95W for graphics, 10W/drive (40W), and a bunch of USB stuff, and you still are running comfortably. Stuff like that, I just look at Corsair, Seasonic, PC P&C, and that's about it.

[CP5670]

Good luck finding Zippy in the USA. I've been looking for a while--I can't find Zippy, I can't find Emacs. And for PC P&C, definitely only a few are even within "range" of the normal person. I swear by Seasonic--my uncle by PC P&C. Other than that, yeah most have decent warranties. But still, if you're telling someone to buy say Corsair, I'd always say Seasonic-built, as CWT-built are not as good quality. Even so, CWT does have some good-wattage units at good prices as well, but not all of the are best.

You can always import it if you're that desperate about having the absolute best. But my point was that there is going to be no perceptible difference between the 10 or so major brands for the vast majority of users. Any of them are miles better than the generic no-name PSUs.

As for the CWT units, that depends on what you mean by "not as good quality." Is there a measurable difference in benchmark tests? Yes, but it's very small in Jonnyguru's reviews. Are you actually going to see problems with the cheaper CWT-built Corsairs on a consumer system where a Seasonic one would have worked? Extremely unlikely, especially given the power requirements of most systems.

My machine for example uses around 290W on load when you factor in the PSU's efficiency, and that is with a 65nm C2D at 3.6ghz and a 670mhz GTX 280. I use an older Topower-based OCZ unit that works well but any of the good 500-600W units these days can handle that easily.

I guess I generalize too much--I help out at another forum where there are countless other people who simply don't know what they're doing.

It's best to recommend specific units instead of brands anyway. The prices and the best deals change all the time. However, I have rarely seen a Seasonic branded PSU that can be considered a good deal given the prices of the rebadges. That 500W is the first one, actually.

[Bob-san]

Good luck finding Zippy in the USA. I've been looking for a while--I can't find Zippy, I can't find Emacs. And for PC P&C, definitely only a few are even within "range" of the normal person. I swear by Seasonic--my uncle by PC P&C. Other than that, yeah most have decent warranties. But still, if you're telling someone to buy say Corsair, I'd always say Seasonic-built, as CWT-built are not as good quality. Even so, CWT does have some good-wattage units at good prices as well, but not all of the are best.

You can always import it if you're that desperate about having the absolute best. But my point was that there is going to be no perceptible difference between the 10 or so major brands for the vast majority of users. Any of them are miles better than the generic no-name PSUs.

As for the CWT units, that depends on what you mean by "not as good quality." Is there a measurable difference in benchmark tests? Yes, but it's very small in Jonnyguru's reviews. Are you actually going to see problems with the cheaper CWT-built Corsairs on a consumer system where a Seasonic one would have worked? Extremely unlikely, especially given the power requirements of most systems.

My machine for example uses around 290W on load when you factor in the PSU's efficiency, and that is with a 65nm C2D at 3.6ghz and a 670mhz GTX 280. I use an older Topower-based OCZ unit that works well but any of the good 500-600W units these days can handle that easily.

My general opinion is Seasonic costs as much as CWT, and Seasonic are all the same when you factor in quality. I generally consider Seasonic top for USA power supplies, CWT second, followed by others like Topower. On the other hand, if you look at that liquid-cooled Koolance 1kW power supply, it's based off a CWT 850W. It shows that given proper cooling, you can put out significantly more clean power on the same setups. I should personally grab a Kill-A-Watt and see what my computer draws. Even my lousy E2140 at 3.25GHz shouldn't draw that much--I'd say 100W at max.

I guess I generalize too much--I help out at another forum where there are countless other people who simply don't know what they're doing.

It's best to recommend specific units instead of brands anyway. The prices and the best deals change all the time. However, I have rarely seen a Seasonic branded PSU that can be considered a good deal given the prices of the rebadges. That 500W is the first one, actually.
[/quote]
Look at any Seasonic that's not painted black, and odds are you'll find a heck of a deal. I just found another deal--a 400W Seasonic (SS-400ES) that beat the price on a FSP Fortron Supply SAGA+ 400R. When I find deals like that, I have to substitute a "tier-2" unit in for the "tier-3" I'd normally recommend.

Most of the time I try not to set people loose looking for a power supply--they tend to pick crappy ones. Even so, knowing that there are dozens upon dozens of brands, and of those only about 10% are actually good, I can generally check those quick for the price, wattage, and build and recommend that. Especially when I work with foreign retailers--a Zippy/EMacs unit would cost too much (50% or more) for the tiny difference.

So long as you look for Seasonic OEM units, you're getting quality and you're getting what you pay for, and I find the prices are quite competitive. Once you get in the high-wattage units, the difference becomes minimal and the prices extraordinary. Corsair VX650--the poor-man's non-modular HX620--costs less than both the HX620 and Seasonic's S12 E+ 550HT.

[CP5670]

My general opinion is Seasonic costs as much as CWT, and Seasonic are all the same when you factor in quality. I generally consider Seasonic top for USA power supplies, CWT second, followed by others like Topower. On the other hand, if you look at that liquid-cooled Koolance 1kW power supply, it's based off a CWT 850W. It shows that given proper cooling, you can put out significantly more clean power on the same setups. I should personally grab a Kill-A-Watt and see what my computer draws. Even my lousy E2140 at 3.25GHz shouldn't draw that much--I'd say 100W at max.

Yes, it's probably not very high at all, especially if you are on stock voltage.

You're generalizing too much on the quality and prices of Seasonic though. For example, the Seasonic-based PCP&C 750W does marginally worse on Jonnyguru's tests than the Etasis-based Silverstone ST75ZF. Of course, you wouldn't notice any difference in practice, but when you take into account the fact that the ST75ZF is currently $35 less, the PCP&C unit becomes hard to justify. A similar situation can be seen with the Corsair VX550 (CWT), which performs identically to their own more expensive HX520 (Seasonic), even in testing.

I will admit though that those generic looking Seasonics appear to be much better deals than their black ones. I hadn't seen them on Newegg in the past. Still, I would probably get the similarly priced Corsair VX450 over that 500W Seasonic (according to Jonnyguru it may be internally identical), if only because it is much more well known at this point and has been tested at many sites.

By the way, I think the PCP&C Turbo Cool line is still based on Zippy units. Although they look like straight copies of server PSUs and may have annoyingly loud fans.

[Bob-san]

My general opinion is Seasonic costs as much as CWT, and Seasonic are all the same when you factor in quality. I generally consider Seasonic top for USA power supplies, CWT second, followed by others like Topower. On the other hand, if you look at that liquid-cooled Koolance 1kW power supply, it's based off a CWT 850W. It shows that given proper cooling, you can put out significantly more clean power on the same setups. I should personally grab a Kill-A-Watt and see what my computer draws. Even my lousy E2140 at 3.25GHz shouldn't draw that much--I'd say 100W at max.

Yes, it's probably not very high at all, especially if you are on stock voltage.

You're generalizing too much on the quality and prices of Seasonic though. For example, the Seasonic-based PCP&C 750W does marginally worse on Jonnyguru's tests than the Etasis-based Silverstone ST75ZF. Of course, you wouldn't notice any difference in practice, but when you take into account the fact that the ST75ZF is currently $35 less, the PCP&C unit becomes hard to justify. A similar situation can be seen with the Corsair VX550 (CWT), which performs identically to their own more expensive HX520 (Seasonic), even in testing.

I will admit though that those generic looking Seasonics appear to be much better deals than their black ones. I hadn't seen them on Newegg in the past. Still, I would probably get the similarly priced Corsair VX450 over that 500W Seasonic (according to Jonnyguru it may be internally identical), if only because it is much more well known at this point and has been tested at many sites.

By the way, I think the PCP&C Turbo Cool line is still based on Zippy units. Although they look like straight copies of server PSUs and may have annoyingly loud fans.

All about the cooling when in practice. And it seems Seasonic has shifted its product focus a bit--they seem to be targeting lower-wattage areas much more effectively with OEM units--the same type of unit they'd sell to another company, just cheaper so they keep the profit. Great way to spread their name around and target smaller manufacturers--since most consumers only care if it works--no windows in office machines.

I'll see about finding out who PC P&C's units are from. I had Redbeard (a Corsair rep) say that the VX550 and TX750 were both CWT and the other 4 are all Seasonic. Overall they seem to be doing well.

[Nuke]

as usual the parts i bought actually work.

whatever i lack in parts selection skills i surely make up for in build competence. i used to do this for a living you know.