[Kolgena]

Yeah, I didn't want to necro the other thread, so here we go:

My specs:
Radeon X1600

C:\Program Files\FS\fs2_open_3_6_10r-20090322_r5114.exe -mod mediavps -spec -glow -env -mipmap -nomotiondebris -missile_lighting -normal -3dshockwave -orbradar -ship_choice_3d -3dwarp  -ambient_factor 0 -ogl_spec 30 -spec_exp 20 -spec_point 0.6 -spec_static 1 -spec_tube 0.8


Now, everything used to work okay for me before, since I never updated my 2007 driver since the day I got the card (I'm lazy and such). So, when everyone was complaining about game crashes with Radeon X1xxx varieties, I didn't chime in because I didn't notice that anything was wrong with my particular game. Anyways, I started exploring this forum a bit more, and noticed that the lighting in the game from beam weapons actually gave off tube lights of the same color as the beam. This was a bit of a revelation for me, because I've only had rather bright white lighting from beams regardless of its actual color. I thought I would try to fix it with some driver updates. After throwing on every driver 8.1->9.3, I realized something really, really annoying. When I first installed 8.1, I noticed something fantastic: lighting actually worked. Beams had proper colored light, explosions actually lit up ships around them, and fighter lasers also gave off light. However, normal maps break on these drivers, and although lighting is great, the ships themselves are uglified. On drivers 8.7 and higher, normal maps work again in the tech room or ship viewer, although they aren't as strong as they were on my original factory driver, but the game crashes in missions. So, to summarize, here's what I've found for my particular model of card:

7.x (not sure about the exact month numbers that this applies to) Normal maps work fine, but lighting is shot to hell and unrealistic.
8.1-8.6: lighting is awesome/works the way it's intended to, but normal maps don't show.
8.7+: game is unplayable due to crashes. Normal maps work, however useless they may be in this context.

The question is, given this detail (which I don't think has come up in the discussion 3 months ago), is it possible for me (and most likely other radeon x1xx users) to see normal maps AND proper lighting? Of course, I'm assuming that my card isn't gimped, and the broken lighting is a unique case.

[falcon2105]

I got your PM, but figured id post here so others can see my current solution. Use the up to date drivers. Then get some program to view .vp files, i use something called decent manager vpview 32 or something, i don't know where i got it though. Then delete mv_core from your mediavps file. Then open mv_core using whatever program you find and extract all the files to some random folder somewhere. Then take all of the files and put them in their rightful places in freespace2\mediavps\data\effects, missions etc. etc. BUT do not put lbgse-f.sdr, lbgs-f.sdr, lbgsne-f.sdr, and lbse-f.sdr in the effects folder. Those 4 files as far as i can tell are responsible for a lot of the messed up lighting. There are a couple other effects files that are messing up lighting for a few ingame models, but i haven't had time to locate them yet. And sorry, i would just make a vp with the files we need in it, but i don't know how. FYI i looked at the game on my friends laptop which has a nvidia 7300 and the normal maps look a ton better, so we still wont be seeing the best of it. Oh well...this is the best i have come up with, hope it helps...sorry for long confusing post .

[chief1983]

Or you _could_ just turn off shaders since that's basically what you just did.  You removed the shader files.  Making a new VP with the shader files removed is, well, a waste of time, when you can disable them via the launcher/command line.  Look under Troubleshooting for Disable GLSL or whatever, or just run with -no_glsl.

[Kolgena]

Quick question: what do the shaders do aside from render normal maps?

[pecenipicek]

at the time being, they emulate the fixed pipeline renderer.

The current code was always intended to primarily be a place-holder/research-aid in order to work out what would be needed to add proper shader support in the future.  So what's there now is really just a shader version of the fixed-function pipeline, with all of the same basic limitations.  Somebody else might have an idea that could get it to work in pure GLSL, but I can't think of anything that would be remotely acceptable without a lot of code changes to get it working.

I've bolded the important part. Lightning looks a bit different, however, nothing drastic.

[falcon2105]

To what chief said, i remember initially turning on normal maps used to freeze up my game, so i used no glsl to turn off normal maps. Thing is with my little fix at least, based on the screens i've shown a few people on various threads about this problem, i still have normal maps. Someone said they were a little subdued, but they're there nonetheless. I don't wanna say im right your wrong, but i think by removing only those 4 files it seems like most of the lighting issues are removed without completely disabling normal maps. 

[chief1983]

I'm fairly sure that if you did disable GLSL you did not have normal maps.  There's something else going on if so.  Those files should not be used if you properly disabled GLSL with the launcher/command line.

[Kolgena]

Perhaps they mistook the baked-in groves on the textures as normal maps?

The way to tell if normal maps are on or not is to take any ship in the tech room (hercules works best for this), and tilt it so that one side is in "shadow". However, since the game can't render shadows, the side that's darkened will show thin groves that are still bright. Those are normal maps that are being lit by the "sun" in the tech room through the ship.

I could be wrong. Care to post a screenie?

Also, what's the difference between -no_glsl and disabling only normal maps? My game runs fine without -no_glsl but shows no normal maps. I figured I'd turn off the tag as well in case that was affecting performance somehow.

[pecenipicek]

if you're running with -no_glsl, its impossible to get normal maps.

[chief1983]

If you hit F3 at the menu for the ship lab, you can see what textures are enabled when viewing a ship.  If you can turn normal maps on/off in the lab, you have normal maps enabled, and thus have GLSL enabled.  If you don't have normal maps there, you don't have normal maps enabled, either explicitly in the launcher, or because GLSL is disabled.

[captain-custard]

no real solutions but would it be possible for someone ( who has or knows about radeon cards) to make a list of cards, known problems and solutions ....links etc and sticky it so that ppl can have a one stop shop for radeon problems .... maybe we should do this for all cards , radeon , nvidia and intel(coughs) with what it is capable of and beyond ...

a little example

  nvidia 7300 mobile 256mb ram , capable of running mvps but needs a little overcocking for reasonable fps and latest drivers
+ links for drivers and overclock tools etc


 does any one else think this is useful

[Kolgena]

Very much so, but it seems quite a daunting task.

[falcon2105]

Boo...your right chief. deleting those four files is the same as just turning off normal maps. I went into the lab and looked for the normal map option and it wasnt there. I put those 4 files back and checked again and it was and WOW those look cool. I guess i have been seeing i think the spec maps and thought that that was what the normal maps looked like. SO nevermind everything i said and my solution doesnt solve anything .

[chief1983]

Isn't that part of the troubleshooting stuff in the Support forum stickies?