Author Topic: X-wing s-foils animation idea  (Read 17426 times)

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Offline brandx0

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
Random hypothesis:

S-Foils open as a heat dispersion method.  It can't be to give better maneuvering characteristics due to engine spread, nor weapon spread for firing characteristics, as none of the early models of fighter incorporating S-Foils (the Eta-2 Actis and the ARC-170) had engines or weapons mounted on their S-Foils.  The answer must be heat dispersion, hence why they open for combat, situations which are necessarily going to generate more heat than normal cruising operation. 

So why wouldn't they be open all the time then?  Perhaps the heat level generated in a cruising scenario is beneficial to the workings of the engine.  It could be possible that the fuel used in some of these fighters would have a relatively high flash point, or may be stored supercooled to reduce flammability in storage, and may need to be heated before combustion in the engine can occur.  By not dispersing as much heat through radiators, this waste heat could be used to pre-heat the fuel before injection into the engine, saving on other more energy consuming methods, which in turn would require a greater fuel consumption. 

However in highly strenuous situations, higher waste heat could possibly overheat the fuel mixture, causing premature ignition which could destroy the fighter outright without any enemy fire needed.  Thus, in high performance scenarios, the extra heat radiation caused by the S-Foils would be needed (admittedly, however, for optimal radiation of heat, the radiators should not be placed so that the heat dispersed through them would be radiated into another radiator pylon, but we'll ignore that...)

In the same sense, the disabling of weapons during S-Foils closed mode would be a safety feature, as the extra heat caused by the firing of weapons could be dangerous.

So, S-Foils closed = fuel/energy savings, S-Foils open = optimal heat dispersion for combat scenarios.

Just a thought

Also note that I haven't touched physics, chemistry or mechanics since high school, and have only a passing familiarity with combustion methods.  It may show, but hey, we all know the real reason S-Foils exist:  The rule of cool.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 08:23:01 pm by brandx0 »
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Offline swashmebuckle

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
That's in line with what Wookieepedia says, and furthermore it makes sense visually because the ships that have s-foils (X&B) have wingtip cannons that are freaking enormous compared to the A and Y-wings' more modestly sized armaments and the TIE ball cockpits' puny stubs.  You could definitely imagine the heat from those monsters melting the wiring for their own power supply.  To the tech room!

 

Offline Archaic

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
hadn't considered arc-170 and stuff, but yeah, those were probably heat sinks.

the x/b wing split does give a shot spread.

and in continuing the rule of cool:


we all know why ep1-3 suck: George Lucas is a Fool.

...say, would you guys like a Star Viper
id be willing to work on it,  though the only program i have that i really know how to use is anim8or, but it can export/import objects as vtx, 3ds, obj.

my only condition is that someone add the pwnage that is the nebulon-beta frigate. or i could do that too, though it would be alot more difficult(i dont have a model of one :P)

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
Hmm...this one?  Actually it looks a lot like EVE's Tristan.  Can't stop ya from making it, if you can get it LOD'd all that much the better.  No guarantees it'd be in any campaign we've discussed up to this point but generally, with ships it's the more the merrier :)
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Offline Archaic

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
lod'd? you mean a high res model as well as a low res model?

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
Yeah otherwise someone else has to do that before it goes in game, so it's something to keep in mind as you model.  And actually Freespace works well with 3, 4, or even 5 LODs sometimes I think.  2 is probably not enough to really take advantage of them.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Archaic

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
what should my poly targets be, and does the mesh have to be vertex sewn, or can i use separate meshes for detail, greebles, etc

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
It can have multiple subobjects, but for a small ship you probably don't need them unless there's a chance they will move.  But a single subobject doesn't have to be sewn either, it can be disconnected parts I believe.
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"You may not sell or otherwise commercially exploit the source or things you created based on the source." -- Excerpt from FSO license, for reference

Nuclear1:  Jesus Christ zack you're a little too hamyurger for HLP right now...
iamzack:  i dont have hamynerge i just want ptatoc hips D:
redsniper:  Platonic hips?!
iamzack:  lays

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
They don't have to be welded together, but be careful, at least until pixel shading becomes the norm, since specularity is calculated on a per-polygon basis, and that can lead for a really weird effect when non-welded polygons meet, since the lighting will not take it into account.

  

Offline Thaeris

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Re: X-wing s-foils animation idea
The interesting, age-old discussion of what the purpose of the S-Foil could actually serve... Hopefully such a late post in the discussion won't bother anyone...

This site in my opinion is the best reference to the X-Wing I've ever seen: http://saxman.xwlegacy.net/

You'll need to find the link to the X-Wing, of course, but the author has "done his research" so-to-say (via novels, the films, etc.).

In terms of maneuverability, the operation of the S-Foils might warrent slightly different handling characteristics. As mentioned in the article above, the closed position of the foils yields a slightly greater "thrust footprint" to the lateral portion of the craft. Given that the fighter has some degree of thrust vectoring or differential thrust (any ship like this would require it... heck, even the Y-Wing has thrust vectoring!), this would enable slightly greater yaw authority. This would not be much, but there you go.

When the foils are opened, the engines separate to a much greater extent above and below the center of mass on the xy or yz-plane, thus enabling greater pitch authority via a greater moment. If we are to believe thruster banks are installed on the trailing edge of the foils, then this would also serve to improve pitch authority when the the foils were opened in the sense that the thrusters might be able to act in a similar manner as differential thrust in the engines as described in the scenario above. Thus, overall maneuverability is greater when the foils are opened, as everyone should figure naturally. Supposedly this act also increases the effectiveness of the deflector shields by augmenting their coverage area.

In terms of gameplay, implementing S-Foils would require a shifting of table values for the X-Wing when the system was engaged. How the table shifting could be done, I have no idea. However, as someone already suggested, this transitional prompt would most effectively be done by using a "primary weapon" called "safe" or something like that. The next part would involve making sure only one primary weapon could EVER be selected at one time. This would serve the dual function of disarming the cannons when the S-Foils were engaged ("safe") as well as actually moving the physical wings/shifting flight model tables. Obviously, this process would go both ways. Also, entering subspace/hyperspace/somethingspace would need to cause the S-Foils to close as well.

If the argument is attempted that closing the foils has some sort of performance boost, it is mostly out of the scope of FotG UNLESS you make an argument for a specific case, which I will cover shortly. If there were atmospheric missions, closing the foils could indeed bring about a greater sustainable speed. The X-Wing obviously does not really have good aerodynamics. However, with the foils open, the aerodynamics become worse at speed. This would be due to the fact that a great deal of airflow is trundling about between the split wing surface (making the S-Foils act a little like an airbrake). For the Rogue Squadron games, this is acceptable as a game dynamic as most missions took place in an atmosphere. In the case of FotG however, what could be argued is that closing the foils disarms the cannons and thus means an automatic transfer of power from the weapon energy to both shields and engines. This change would be gradual in actually occuring, and would be likewise in reversing. Thus it might take a minute for the effects to be realized. This would mean that the pilot would have to coose well when he/she would employ the foils, thus denying any stupid "gamey" trick in simulation. The application of the foils could be as follows: (1.) on a patrol, you want to move through waypoints faster. Thus you close the foils. Also works great for triggers/ mission situations. (2.) entering the hangar and landing perhaps. Diaspora will have landing ops. It would be really cool to see Fate of the Galaxy have this as well. Heck, even TBP had recoveries aboard a vessel to an extent.

Of course, this is all just brainstorming and speculation. I have faith in the experts to develop something worthwhile :D

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