[Blue Lion]

BL, what I would recommend is what I would recommend to my side as well, either take the argument back from the crazies and crack-pots or abandon them to they're bloviating non-sense and obfuscation.

Great, name me some crazies who are "bloviating nonsense and obfuscating" things on the left. Go ahead. High level Democrats in politics or even prominent leftists journalists who are doing this.

And while you're at it, you can tell me what exactly they're trying to block? How are they doing it? I can tell you how those are the right are doing it and who they are if you like.

I'll take a bet and say you'll come up with quotes about the right isn't looking for debate but just wants to block things. I'm really looking for blocking of Republican plans and ideas.

That's what's getting missed in the "main-stream" media coverage, as well as some of the more conservative news sources, of the tea-parties and protests and what not, it's not that the protesters are racist or don't want change.  We ALL want the health care industry to be cheaper and more user friendly.  What we object to is Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi,  "Dingy" Harry Reed, Chris Dodd and the rest of the "usual suspects" forcing yet another bloated, unendingly complex and costly government program down our throats that will be bankrupt in a decade and need fixing again.

A deflection from the obvious racists in the party and an attempt to turn attention back to the Democrats? Amazing. Well then lets sit down and talk about what plans you have for fixing this obvious problem. How do you lower health care costs for people?

Name me one, just ONE, government program that comes in at or under it's estimated cost.

That's ok, I automatically assume any project will run over time and budget. That's government AND private. It's worked pretty well so far. Even if it does run over budget, it's still far better than what we have now.

[Spicious]

What we object to is Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi,  "Dingy" Harry Reed, Chris Dodd and the rest of the "usual suspects" forcing yet another bloated, unendingly complex and costly government program down our throats that will be bankrupt in a decade and need fixing again.

Even though your country does seem to be filled with plenty of people who could be considered brain-dead, many of whom you elect into positions of power over you, the fact that every other developed country has managed to do it in some form or another would suggest that it's not healthcare that is the problem but rather the country, which the conservative politicians are still unable to grasp.

[StarSlayer]

You need to be careful though.  Sure its easy to point and laugh and dismiss the entire opposition as a bunch of crazies.  There are quite a few mind you, some of the folks on this forum only exemplify that, and they need to be bludgeoned with an Encyclopedia Sledgehammer.   That said there are plenty more who actually have legitimate concerns about whats going on.  America's population demographics lean heavily towards soon to be retirees, and any time you think your going to screw around with healthcare this close to when they need it is going to be hitting a hornets nest with a stick.  The timing is bad, its one thing if we were a youthful healthy nation any problems with the new healthcare system could be fixed by the time it was needed, but we're not.  Its coming on the heels of a recession, onto a generation of baby boomers.  That so many are scared ****less about the government's expenditure plans means there has been a fundamental failure to explain what they are planning and to assuage folks' fears.  Sure you can blame Fox News but politics isn't fair, and the Democrats are losing the propaganda war.  

So while its certainly worth a chuckle to look at the stupid bastards who think czars are a Soviet Russian phenomenon, don't think you can just dissmiss the whole issue.  If the Democrats continue to fail at proving their healthcare bill is worth implementing and just decide to label everybody who opposes it a racist and ram it through don't be surprised when they find their asses out of office come next election.  I cringe to think what kind of scary neoCon bastards we will end up with if this whole thing blows up in the Democrats faces.  Government works best if its balanced and they are forced to compromise and work cooperatively to make things happen, instead over the past years the power has just been seesawing back and forth between extremes.

[Blue Lion]

So while its certainly worth a chuckle to look at the stupid bastards who think czars are a Soviet Russian phenomenon, don't think you can just dissmiss the whole issue.  If the Democrats continue to fail at proving their healthcare bill is worth implementing and just decide to label everybody who opposes it a racist and ram it through don't be surprised when they find their asses out of office come next election.  I cringe to think what kind of scary neoCon bastards we will end up with if this whole thing blows up in the Democrats faces.  Government works best if its balanced and they are forced to compromise and work cooperatively to make things happen, instead over the past years the power has just been seesawing back and forth between extremes.

Except they aren't. Is it not possible people are tired of Republicans because they're....... trying to block important legislation by using phrases like "death panel"? The racists are just a bonus of crazy.

I fail to see why Democrats have to please the vocal minority that we all agree is a minority. Why doesn't the opposition to the healthcare plan tell the crazies to shut up that they're ruining any chance they have of making their voices heard?

Oh yea, they just want to kill the current plan so any noise is good noise.

[StarSlayer]

You don't seem to get the point.  Sure the pitch fork waving crazies are getting all the headlines, but they are not the ones you need to worry about.  I've seen gallop polls indicating the Democrats have been steadily losing ground on the domestic policy issues.  Hell I live in New England and I've heard plenty of normal well adjusted people express concerns about the healthcare bill and the massive government expenditures.  That is the issue that needs to be addressed.  The government needs to sell this healthcare bill to the moderates and independents not just their own party.  Just because the most vocal group are the few ignorant cattle, doesn't mean you can just dismiss the whole problem. It's not as simple as a bunch of poster waving bigots and obstructionist GOP lapdogs not worthy of licking TR's boots clean.

[karajorma]

I tend to agree with Slayer on this one. When this many people are worried about something every other Western democracy has then something has gone badly wrong with explaining what it is.

Sure we can have a chuckle at the racists and idiots but we shouldn't assume that's all there is to this. It's just that the racists and idiots are the ones turning up for tea parties. There are a lot more who aren't like that who are still worried.

[Liberator]

Again, the argument isn't that the system is in need of improvement.

I just refuse to let people who are so disconnected from the common man than they can't understand what people are worried about and seem to be doing everything they can to divert attention from themselves or they're intentions with this particular piece of legislation.

I mean it's telling about a lot of things when Jon Stewart is lamenting that he somehow managed to scoop the New York Times in covering these people.

There's a word for this:

Corruption

[Turambar]

It's not that we can't understand what they're worried about.  It's that what they're worried about happens to be a pack of lies sold by the conservative media.  There are no "Death Panels,"  your grandma won't die, your healthcare won't be more expensive, your taxes will not be increased, and socialism is not a bad thing.

In this case, your "common man" are morons, and they further they are from the people making decisions, the better

[Blue Lion]

Again, the argument isn't that the system is in need of improvement.

I just refuse to let people who are so disconnected from the common man than they can't understand what people are worried about and seem to be doing everything they can to divert attention from themselves or they're intentions with this particular piece of legislation.

I mean it's telling about a lot of things when Jon Stewart is lamenting that he somehow managed to scoop the New York Times in covering these people.

There's a word for this:

Corruption

You're talking about Republicans, right? I think you're right. I think the way they have no idea what the common man wants (they are the lowest polling group). They are doing a good job of diverting attention away from themselves and directing it back to the President.

The reason it's so hard to come up with any real idea on what these "common men" are talking about is they are so wide ranging you can't even keep track.

Obama is a socialist, a fascist, a Nazi, a communist, a Muslim. He's not a US citizen.

Public option is polling high. Regulation on health insurance companies is polling high. When they ask people about specific parts of the health plan, people like it. When they ask about Obama's health plan (which is the same thing) people dislike. They don't dislike the plan, they just said they liked all the parts of it. It's spin to tell people Obama is bad.

The "problem" is that eventually the chanting from the right is going to die down or move onto another issue. When that happens there won't be any real resistance to the issue because no one one the right is coming up with a differing plan.

Give me something, anything. Show me a plan. A detailed, thought out plan with goals. The plan the Repubs threw together with the circles and lines was literally laughed at.

So until the real right wing tells these idiots to shut up and put forth a real alternative, it's just too bad. You can't let the morons lead the charge and then complain when no one takes you seriously.

[colecampbell666]

The "common man" goes more on instinct than someone who has been trained as a leader. Instinctively he is going to go with what seems best for him, operative word being "seems". He isn't thinking about everyone else. And the common man as you refer to him is a Republican, and while I don't like to make blanket statements, most Republicans were brought up a certain way - to follow and not lead. To listen to everything a perceived (or actual) higher power says.

[Stormkeeper]

You know what amuses me? That this was originally a thread showing some funny protest signs, and has now devolved/evolved into a thread about Republicans and the common man, as far as  I can tell.

Yep. HLP; We Know Thread-Derailment.

[Blue Lion]

I thought we weren't supposed to make threads of just images?

[mxlm]

The common Modern Man?