[Thaeris]

Out of mere curiosity, I decided to browse through the tables to see how some of the ships, namely the classic FS1 light bombers, stacked up against each other. I'm actually rather surprised...

The age-old opinion is that the Athena is more maneuverable than the Zeus. Despite our best hopes and musings, this is in fact incorrect:

The Athena:

Code: [Select]

$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 0.55
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 60.0
$Rotation time: 4.5, 4.5, 5.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 4.0
$Forward decel: 2.0
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0

And now the Zeus:

Code: [Select]

$Density: 1
$Damp: 0.2
$Rotdamp: 0.55
$Max Velocity: 0.0, 0.0, 55.0
$Rotation time: 4.0, 4.5, 3.0
$Rear Velocity: 0.0
$Forward accel: 1.0
$Forward decel: 0.5
$Slide accel: 0.0
$Slide decel: 0.0

What the numbers are telling us here is that the Zeus has the same pitch response as the Athena, but it yaws and rolls at a superior rate in comparison, especially if you use it more as a heavy fighter rather than as a bomber. What makes it dislikable is its comparable weakness and large profile, but it's actually a viable dogfighter. Ignoring the damper factor, it actually rolls faster than the good 'ol Herc!

Again, I'm not sure precisely how the damping factor ties into actual game mechanics, as in the algorithm delays the time to full response for a given imput... or simply that the user imput is placed on a reduced factor until the control device actually arrives at full deflection - I really can't answer this question. Perhaps one of the SCP crew could tell us?

In general though, it's really surprising how the AI or other factors involved make us think how certain elements in the FS-verse are just terrible... when in fact they aren't! I really started to notice that the other day when posting in "Those Freakin' Dragons!" about comparing the Perseus and the Aeshma...

[NGTM-1R]

I no longer believe anything in the tables after comparing these two ingame again.

[Thaeris]

Again, I think a crucial factor here is that the Zeus is such a greater target in terms of size. The AI profile for the bomber might also be an issue.

...And I still like the Athena... 

Another note, after looking through the descriptions of how the ships.tbl works again, the lower the number, the better in general the given ship will perform. Again, ignoring the damping factor, the Zeus is a friggin' rocket! You could really ruin someone's day if you flew her right...

[Snail]

I actually think it might have something to do with the model too.

[Droid803]

The Moment of Inertia or something?

[Snail]

Eyepoints too. Having an eyepoint very offset can have weird results...

[ChronoReverse]

I'd say it's more a matter of maneuverability being overrated (for this comparison scenario) coupled with people using pitch more often.

Having a little bit higher top-speed, higher afterburner-speed, stronger shields, better gunpoints, larger warhead-capacity all combines to make the Athena just plain nicer overall.

[Snail]

Larger warhead capacity? The Athena can't carry any warheads whatsoever.

[Rodo]

target profile makes the difference, flying a Zeus is hard work, you are hittable from every angle.

I love the model, looks so cool and all.. but in regards of flying it, I leave that to the AI or the experienced player.

[ChronoReverse]

Larger warhead capacity? The Athena can't carry any warheads whatsoever.

Sorry, I meant secondary since we're talking about dogfighting.

If only the Artemis didn't have those horrible gunpoints...

[Thaeris]

I just looked at the Zeus POF. The eyepoints are fixed in the forward cockpit, just slightly below the gunmounts. The model's centerpoint (which I assume it will turn about) is located near the bottom, but still within the hull. That said, it's not a terrible gun platform.

But, as eveyone else has mentioned, the AI doesn't use it tactfully enough while it's still a very large target.

With the Athena, the centerpoint is right where it should be - smack-dab in the middle of the craft. Then, the viewpoint is right in the front cockpit while all the guns are centered about it. Thus, there you go. It's just that small margin there that makes it more favorable to fly.

Now that I think about it, the Zeus is much like the Myrmidon: It needs the right environment with the right tools to succeed. Unfortunately, that environment doesn't exist for the craft in most campaigns. Just to illustrate, I'd not have too high of an opinion for the Myrmidon if it wasn't for Blue Planet...

[Iranon]

I wasn't anyone thought the Athena to be more manoeverable... I think it's still a far more useful craft.

If you don't need to deliver actual bombs, the Athena is excellent: Faster, slimmer, higher total secondary capacity, excellent gun placements, more durable... it can function as an assault fighter/missile boat about as well as a HercII. Personally I think the new craft is ever so slightly stronger overall, but I prefer the old lady for her speed and generous afterburner capacity.

The Zeus is quite a bit worse than any regular assault fighter. Despite outstanding afterburner capacity and acceleration its overall speed is only average, manoeverability is decent but not impressive. There is nothing positive that stands out to make up for its very pronounced weaknesses - fragility and inadequate secondary capacity.
In theory there might be missions in which a bad assault fighter which can carry bombs fits the bill better than a regular bomber or regular assault fighter... it makes sense for a GTI project since they might sometimes need to send a small force without fighter cover. In practice, I'm no good at using it in a dogfight and would probably have better chances in a Medusa.

*

A few more myths:

The Perseus being blazingly fast. On Hard and with at least the default amount of energy going to engines, its overall speed is comparable to that of the Ulysses, noticably below that of a Loki and closer to the Seth than the Horus. On Insane it compares slightly better because of slower energy recharge (so for average speed, cruising speed becomes more and afterburner performance less important).

Energy output having any meaning. Recharge scales directly with maximum capacity for both shields and cannons. On high levels where recharge is an issue, this is bad news for Vasudans who want heavy primary firepower (all their Kayser-compatible craft only have 100 cannon energy as opposed to the 150 of most Terran fighters) and Terran pilots who want to fly something twitchy (the Ulysses is even worse there at 80).

Shivans having a comparative advantages due to their heavy shields. In a 'seconds of primary fire needed to kill' comparison, even the Vasudan lightweights outlast Shivan fighters because Shivan primaries suck. Killing a Ulysses with a Dragon is arguably more work than the other way round, and Dragon vs. Dragon engagements would simply continue until the heat death of the universe.

[Thaeris]

While we're still on the subject of the Athena, I'm going to stray a little off-topic...

Attached is an image of a ventral cannon assembly left over from the HTL Athena's "Athena Mk.II" origins. I'm hoping this will be omitted in FS Port 3.2...

[attachment deleted by admin]