Author Topic: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind  (Read 8184 times)

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
T-LoW, if you've played ME2, do you remember Admiral vas Qwib-Qwib?  Qwib-qwib are anti-Berserker Berserkers from the Saberhagen novels.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 01:17:12 pm by SpardaSon21 »
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
17:37:22   Quanto: its not gay if its an elf

[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline T-LoW

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
I remember that guy but... what the heck are you two talking about? :wtf:

Never read a Berserker-Novel nor do I know Reynolds :nervous:
The german Freespace-Galaxy

"There was a time before we were born. If someone asks this is where I'll be."

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
Well, then go read a Saberhagen Berserker novel or Alastair Reynolds.

 

Offline T-LoW

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
Tell that to the Marines :hopping:

So the point is that ME availed itself of those books?
The german Freespace-Galaxy

"There was a time before we were born. If someone asks this is where I'll be."

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
Tell that to the Marines :hopping:

So the point is that ME availed itself of those books?

Oh, in nothing but the most respectable way, though. ME is a great story with a great setting.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
Don't read Berserker Fury. Just don't.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
The biggest problem I see with the "Shivans were created a long time ago as destroyers and have been blasting civilizations ever since" is that it doesn't explain why the Ancients were able to form a vast empire and conquer other races (which must have been the work of centuries if not millennia), while the Terrans and Vasudans got noticed by the Shivans much more quickly.

And yes, I'm aware that the Historian timeline has the same problem. :) The best I've got ATM basically boils down to "the ancients got lucky lol."

This puzzles me too.

Though it can be explained, 1st by Ancients first having an empire, and only then discovering subspace, as we see in Great War campaign. So by the time they start subspace travel - they already have an empire. Also, amount of traffic,  which goes through subspace is not that huge in the beginning, and then, when it comes to larger amounts, Ancients are detected by Shivans and annihilated.

As for Humans - after finishing Ancients empire, and seeing that they failed to detect it while it was relatively small, shivans made some improvements to their sensors - and so they response time to increasing subspace travel usage got smaller.

But still, having Shivans beaten by GTVA doesn't make sense at all, from this specific point of view. BluePlanet's idea of great destroyers and great preservers is way too mythical and mystical. So there must be some other way.

One of the ways is - shivans are currently occupied by annihilating another Ancients-size empire, so it was only a small "border guard" with one Lucifer which was spared to destroy Terrans and Vasudans.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
Any effort to answer the Shivan question ruins them. We should stop. :P
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 
Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
Any effort to answer the Shivan question ruins them. We should stop. :P

It depends on if you want to finally destroy them and live in peace, or be constantly threaten by them.
To destroy Shivans you need to fully understand them, where they come from, why they do what they do, and so on.
It will effectively ruin all this mystical way of things about Shivans, but provide unlimited possibilities to develop chapters of Shivan history in the past :)

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
To destroy Shivans you need to fully understand them, where they come from, why they do what they do, and so on.

You don't have to know a man to kill them. You don't need to know why his routine exists to construct an ambush, you just need to know the routine. You don't even have to be able to see them, really. It just helps.

The Shivans as mystery offers far more opportunity for telling stories, far more flexibility, than an answer.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
BluePlanet's idea of great destroyers and great preservers is way too mythical and mystical. So there must be some other way.

You don't know ****. Don't make judgments like that until you've seen the entire story.

 
Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
BluePlanet's idea of great destroyers and great preservers is way too mythical and mystical. So there must be some other way.

You don't know ****. Don't make judgments like that until you've seen the entire story.

Yeah, sorry.

ATM, from what was shown in the AoA it looks like this.
I hope it will be shown in some other way, and will be glad to see it different.
Sorry if what i said offended you:)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
BluePlanet's idea of great destroyers and great preservers is way too mythical and mystical. So there must be some other way.

You don't know ****. Don't make judgments like that until you've seen the entire story.

Yeah, sorry.

ATM, from what was shown in the AoA it looks like this.
I hope it will be shown in some other way, and will be glad to see it different.
Sorry if what i said offended you:)

Didn't mean to lash out at you, but man, there's oodles of stuff in the techroom to make it clear it's a bit more complicated than that. (Which, granted, is not the same as presenting it in the narrative proper.)

 

Offline Sushi

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
To destroy Shivans you need to fully understand them, where they come from, why they do what they do, and so on.

You don't have to know a man to kill them. You don't need to know why his routine exists to construct an ambush, you just need to know the routine. You don't even have to be able to see them, really. It just helps.

The Shivans as mystery offers far more opportunity for telling stories, far more flexibility, than an answer.

True, but if you want to make a compelling history out of it, you can't just have the Shivans be a mysterious nearly-all-powerful force forever. Sooner or later, you'll have to explain them and somehow resolve the conflict.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
Why? I mean I've got a grand overarching campaign story sitting in my head that doesn't require that at all. :P

Even in death they remain mysterious.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
Why? I mean I've got a grand overarching campaign story sitting in my head that doesn't require that at all. :P

Even in death they remain mysterious.

I'm pretty sure killing them is going to make them seem a lot lamer than explaining them. It's just the usual human triumphalism, rah rah we're so special even though we're just another modestly eusocial cognitive niche low-tier ingroup-centric predator species.

  

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Short Shivan theory that just came out from my mind
I'm pretty sure killing them is going to make them seem a lot lamer than explaining them. It's just the usual human triumphalism, rah rah we're so special even though we're just another modestly eusocial cognitive niche low-tier ingroup-centric predator species.

Considering it would have been at least a tri-species effort, not really.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story