Author Topic: UI Issues  (Read 7040 times)

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Offline karajorma

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Whoever nuke and bob are having their hypothetical argument about. :p

I was pointing out the rather large flaw in Bob's logic. Productivity will eventually increase after a UI change but there will only be an overall increase if the frequency of the changes is low.
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Offline Nuke

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^ this pretty much makes my point.
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Offline Ghostavo

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Offline Mika

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^ this pretty much makes my point.

Seconded.

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This is gonna cause a small inferno, but I've never used OS X for any significant period of time and yet I can sit down at a Mac and find what I need (whether it's a file or a function) very quickly and very reliably.

Whatever those guys are doing, it works.

I have never used a Mac for more than minute, but I could figure out how to do basic stuff with it. Interestingly, I can't do the same with the Ribbon, though. And plain Windows 7 UI is slower for me than the Classic XP. Although search itself has radically improved in Win 7 and can now actually find stuff! Too bad I don't often need to search for anything.

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I fail to see what one thing has to do with another. Ribbons are not limiting your options, they are supposed to provide quick and easy access to the functions that, based on the current context, you are most likely to use.

Relevant parts bolded. After checking some of the links, Ribbon is based on statistical information on how the program is averagely used. What happens when you don't use it with average patterns and it is not customizable? Answer: it is actually going to be slower. Worse, in computer aided design, the usage is pretty much random, and then non-modal design is actually more efficient.

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So? Vista (which did most of the UI changes) is 3 years old now. Not my fault if people didn't use the time to adapt.

I don't have time to f*** around with the computer all day long when I'm supposed to do design or research work. You know, to get actually something done to pay the salaries of the tech support. The actual answer to your question is that Vista didn't work well enough. You can't have a half working OS in a computer with which you are supposed to present something in customer meetings. No, you need to have something that absolutely works, and for that reason XP is actually still dominant in corporate world. I expect Microsoft got it right with Windows 7 and it is eventually going to replace the aging XP. I halfway expect that the UI **** storm hasn't even landed yet. Time will prove me wrong, though, and that's within one or two years.

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eventually though you will adapt (or die of old age) the question is will the increases in productivity outweigh the loss of productivity in the long run, and unfortunately the answer is yes, if it is conclusively faster, then it's just a matter of time until it has paid for its self and then it's granting more productivity.

The data from AutoCAD users speaks against Ribbon. And now there seems to be changes coming on to the UI. It cannot be disputed that the Office UI might need a remake, but even Microsoft has had to back off from their Office 2007 Ribbon. I'm looking at the proposed OpenOffice 3 new UI designs that seem to be more logical to me. Will be interesting to see how it fares.
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Offline Nuke

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if this ribbon i keep hearing about is anything like the new start menu, im going to hate it. i do not like dynamic interfaces. i like every button and command to be where its always been. i dont like digging for commands that i know are there. i like things to be predictable.
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Offline IceFire

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if this ribbon i keep hearing about is anything like the new start menu, im going to hate it. i do not like dynamic interfaces. i like every button and command to be where its always been. i dont like digging for commands that i know are there. i like things to be predictable.

Ribbon is this:


Or in other words... Everything is grouped logically into tabs that you can switch between without needing to click on file menus, find the appropriate sub menu, select that, and then click on whatever it was that you needed. It's sort of like the experience with Flash or Dreamweaver except the interface is much tighter.
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Offline FUBAR-BDHR

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If I saw a screen like that I'd be instantly doing scans for viruses/malware.

Seriously it looks like a browser screen with several BHO apps. 
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Offline Mika

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if this ribbon i keep hearing about is anything like the new start menu, im going to hate it. i do not like dynamic interfaces. i like every button and command to be where its always been. i dont like digging for commands that i know are there.

Seconded. I don't like dynamic interfaces, but in a way Ribbon is supposed to be fixed and static. It is context sensitive, but it doesn't try to select those tools that it expects you to need like Office 2003 did (everybody disabled this property) which resulted functions moving positions. I'd still need to find the "Don't do anything that I don't tell you to do" -button from 2003. OpenOffice 2.2 has been easier in that respect.

So in Office 2007, or Ribbon UI in general, the commands and buttons are there where they have always been. But they are not all visible at the same time. As a reader's exercise for those unfamiliar with the Ribbon, try to find load and save from that picture. Those who have tried Ribbon need not to reply.

To make a point here, I'm not trying to kill the fun from those people who like Ribbon. So I would recommend trying it, as your mileage may vary from mine.
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Offline Ghostavo

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I get a feeling you are all going to hate the rise of predictive interfaces...
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Offline Mika

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Ever tried to write a text message with a predictive input?
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Offline The E

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Yes. Works just fine 95% of the time.
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Offline Ghostavo

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Yes, and I can't live without it?

And remember that predictive text is only in its infancy. From here on out, it will just keep getting better.
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Offline Mika

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Ah, I forgot that you guys don't really need to conjugate words. Your prepositions make that a lot easier. But postpositions then...
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Offline Ghostavo

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There are no postpositions in portuguese?
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Offline Mika

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 :wtf:

You lost me.

I'm not Portuguese, and if I remember right, neither are you?
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Offline Ghostavo

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Check my profile?

Most of my experience with predictive text has been in portuguese, I've not tried much in english so I can't vouch for it. But again, this area is still rather new and with smartphone ownership rising it's obvious it will get better with time.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2010, 07:45:08 am by Ghostavo »
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

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Offline Mika

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I meant to implicate that if you have prepositions in the language, working predictive input becomes hell a lot easier. However, if your language happens to use postpositions and word conjugation, you are far more better without it.

Check here for the worst nightmare of programming verb conjugation. Yes, that is just the beginning. A fast overview of the whole grammar :eek2: can be found from here.

For your own security (=mental health), don't read too far on it. I put it here that you know what sort of things are lurking in the shadows if you think predictive text input is going to be easy. I must confess though, that I personally find the Indo-European languages lacking power of expression. Swedish, German and English expressions (not grammar or conjugation) appear somewhat standardized to me. Sometimes it just feels like writing a phrase after phrase.
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Offline Ghostavo

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I never said it was easy, but that there are going to be strides in the area and that it will be massified? Yes, there will and it will.

And predictive text is just the tip of the iceberg. I'd wager there's going to be (if there isn't already) research into making menus and menu items predictive in programs such as Word.
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...