Author Topic: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?  (Read 2494 times)

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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
To start this off, let me say that my computer has a virus.  Exactly WHICH virus, I don't know.  I have managed to isolate where the virus is, and I know what its been doing, and while I've killed the virus' effects, I cannot destroy the virus itself.  For the past several weeks, I've noticed an anomalous increase in the number of low-disk-space warnings for my C: drive.  Now, I have two hard drives, 160GB and a 500GB, PATA and SATA respectively, both WDC.  The 160 is split into 3 partitions:  C (system), D (storage), and E (secondary boot which runs Windows98SE for EXTREME legacy, though it doesn't work right now).  I've been installing as much as I can on the D drive, and the H drive (500) to avoid straining the C, and I even changed the swap file location so it wouldn't use C.  Even as I added virtually NOTHING to the drive, it was getting filled.  I recall clearing up 1.4GB of space one morning, and by the end of the day I was back to 190MB free.  It was that point that I couldn't deny that a virus was responsable, and I began searching for solutions.

My Norton AV had suffered some kind of "error" which disabled the active scan, though I did manage to repair that at one point.  Unfortunately, once that was done, not Norton, nor another Symantec special detector program (that I downloaded for their website), nor a free trial version of AVG 2011 that I'm running in the interim will detect this virus, even if I point it directly at the directory that I know that the virus occupies.  Anyway, I fought with it tooth & nail, uninstalling programs and deleting files, trying to stay ahead of it.  At one point, I even cleared up 500MB, only to have it disappear in two minutes.  Eventually, after some hunting through directories, I tracked down where all my space had gone to... in fact it and the virus were hiding within Norton ITSELF, disguised as a virus definitions auto-down-loader.  In retrospect, I should have realized it, since Norton was always complaining that I didn't set my preferences to auto-download-and-auto-install.  After I tracked it down, I decided that Norton wasn't doing much anyway, so I uninstalled both Norton Anti-Virus and Norton System-Works, the latter of which extracted all the bogus super-inflated files, clearing up 9GB of space!  Then I went back to the program that I suspected was the virus itself, and tried to uninstall that.  I was met with a message telling me that it was a Symantec component that could not be uninstalled because my other Symantec programs NEEDED it..., eh, WHAT other symantec products.  I tracked down the files themselves and tried to delete them, but again I was told that I couldn't do that... funny, in retrospect it reminds me of HAL.  So anyway, I deleted every file from that directory that I could, but three remain.  At the very least, I've identified WHERE they are and what they disguise themselves as, and where they may try to leave their trash.  It gives me some much-needed breathing room, but I already had plans to go further... and so ends the backstory.

Even before I found and crippled the virus, I had already come to the decision that a complete format of the 160GB drive was in order.  Now, my copy of Norton was from 2008, my MS Office was from 2004, and both it and my WinXP were,... ahem, less than legally obtained.   Because of this, I expected that I would not be able to reinstall them after my format, which left purchasing a legal copy of the software, and there seemed little logic in purchasing a brand new copy of a 2-generation old OS, so I will go for Windows 7, and a new copy of MS Office (home and student).  However, I was concerned that my current hardware might be insufficient to run this new OS, so a hardware upgrade became in order. My last hardware upgrade was back in 2004, so it was overdue (though if this virus hadn't reared its head, I could have easily continued to use my current system for at least another year).  I purchased the bulk of my software last night, and at a substantial discount thanks to a Future Shop flyer and Wal-Mart's competition policies, plus my employee's discount.  I purchased Windows Home Premium, MS Office Home and Student, and Norton 360 V.4.  Thanks to competition, I saved at least $90 between the copy of Office and 360.  Then today, I returned the Windows copy at my own store and sunk my savings into it, swapping up to Windows 7 Professional edition, mainly due to the Windows XP compatibility mode.

Tomorrow I will be making a trip out to a local PC retailer and pick up a motherboard, CPU, RAM, Video Card and a new power supply, which should come to about $650.  I was hoping for ASUS motherboard and video card, but they seem to be hard to come by, so I had to settle for a Gigabyte motherboard, with (what I have been assured are) equivalent specs, and a PowerColour video card (same idea).  The MB is equivalent to an ASUS in the M4A87 class, and the video card mounts an ATI 6850, 1GB DDR5.  I'm going for only 4GB of DDR3-1600 system ram, though the board can handle up to 16GB.  I usually go for a 4X increase in RAM between upgrades, for both system and Video (1GB DDR system and 128MB SDR Video for my current), so that should be respectable and give me some upgrade headroom.  The CPU will be a Phenom II X2 3.4 GHz.  The salesman on the other end of the line suggested, at my questioning, that although my existing case should do fine, I might want to upgrade the power supply, since my VC sucks up quite a bit of juice.

Firstly, is the Windows XP compatibility mode required to run FSO?  Will I run into trouble running a 32-bit app in WinXP compatibility on a 64-bit OS install?  What kind of graphical pitfalls can I expect, and what kind of hidden enhancements should I look to enable in FSO?

I look forward to your comments on this, though at some point tomorrow night I'll shutting down to replace and reconfigure.

Wish me luck!
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline Hades

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Firstly, is the Windows XP compatibility mode required to run FSO?
Nope. No compatibility mode needed. Not in vista, not in windows 7 (I've played it with both)

Quote
Will I run into trouble running a 32-bit app in WinXP compatibility on a 64-bit OS install?
Absolutely not.

Good luck with the upgrade. :)
[22:29] <sigtau> Hello, #hard-light?  I'm trying to tell a girl she looks really good for someone who doesn't exercise.  How do I word that non-offensively?
[22:29] <RangerKarl|AtWork> "you look like a big tasty muffin"
----
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<batwota> wow
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Offline Solatar

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
I've been running FSO just fine in Windows 7.  At least see if you can get a student deal (if it applies, of course).  My copy of 7 Professional was $30.  If you or a friend are in any sort of computer/engineering related field you might be able to pick up a free copy from the university.  I know you already bought it, but what the hell, right?

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Unfortunately, my college days are long gone, and I have no close friends in either.
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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
You will probably need a new PSU.  Not only is it likely not powerful enough, it probably does not have the PCI-E connectors a 6850 requires. 

Windows XP compatibility mode is also not exclusive to Win7 Pro and Ultimate; Windows XP Mode is, however.  What it does is basically run an XP VM, so you can get 16-bit support and such through it, as well as native support for older software that may only run on XP.  It's a little late since you already bought it, but if you don't need that kind of functionality, don't bother with Pro.

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Time for an update.

I just got back from my outing, and apparently when the store said sure-we-can-get-that-video-card-sent-from-that-other-store-and-have-it-ready-for-you-Saturday-no-problem, what they really meant was "if it hasn't already been sold at the other location", which is understandable, or "if the other store gets around to setting it aside" or "if we bother to ask them to send it to us", because it wasn't there, and in fact none of their stores in the city had a copy of either that or its equivalent from another manufacturer.  I was forced to downgrade to a 5770... which is still a substantial upgrade from my Radeon 9600XT, and it still has the 1GB DDR5... it just lacks the 256bit interface and has a lower clock speed I think.  Anyway, I have both the parts and the software now, so I just need to wait until this evening when my brother-in-law comes over and I put my 2.3 yr old to bed.  Once that's done, its time to do some overhaulin', baby!
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Offline Davros

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
i would suggest a quadcore at the moment gta 4 is the only game that runs badly on a dualcore but i can see it being joined by other games in future
also i would recommend a ssd

ps: norton have a removal tool which will remove all their stuff from your pc
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 12:42:43 pm by Davros »

 

Offline achtung

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Make sure you're picking up one of the new P67/LGA1155 boards, and get a Sandy Bridge processor. Don't let them stick you with old hardware for damn near the same price as the new.

EDIT: Oh, wait, you're going AMD it appears. If you want to stick to AMD, maybe wait for their Fusion chips to come out soon. I'm not sure what benefits the new Fusion chips hold over the Phenom though. Beyond the integrated GPU of course.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 01:53:16 pm by Swantz »
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Well, I've already got the parts anyway, so those suggestions are rather moot... though hardly unwelcome.  It really came down to the fact that I needed the upgrade sooner rather than later.  As stated in my original post, had it not been for the virus incident, I probably would have used my same system for at least another year before doing something like this, in which case I might have been able to hold out for newer technology.

Unfortunately, the upgrade itself will have to wait for another night.  My brother-in-law's girlfriend's computer experienced a major failure... even more serious than my situation.  We will try it again tomorrow night, but my current system is functional enough to work for the time being.  I should even be able to play FS on it.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Be aware that there are some games that will not run on 64Bit, even under compatability mode (mostly older games that used non-standard accessing), though FSO isn't one of them, others will need work, for example, Battle for Middle Earth requires a user-made patch on some systems to work properly.

Edit: This can sometimes be fixed by letting the program run as Administrator, but not always, it's a pain because a lot of games try to save to directories that the system will not allow them to save to, and quite often won't even bother to tell you that they have not saved.

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Fortunately, with assistance from my brother-in-law, we will attempt to set up a dual-boot with Win98SE as the secondary for running very uncooperative, legacy software.
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Offline Davros

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
the problem with going that route is are there win98 drivers for you 5770
ps: kingpin is a game that doesnt run in win7 x64

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Most games that I play include FSO, games from the Blitzkrieg series, and the Railroad Tycoon series, though I haven't played RT2 Platinum since spring due to problems with my XP video drivers.  My video card includes a free download of COD-MW2, so I may try that as well.  As for Win98, I'm hoping that it will work under the generic driver, or perhaps the very last Omega Catalyst drivers to be released, which I have.  The real problem may come down to getting it to work under such a massive system ram environment.
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Offline Flipside

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
IIRC it will only recognise the first 2 Gig of your memory anyway, something like that.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
ive had trouble running 98 with anything more than 512 megs of ram. i wouldn't suspect a new machine to be even remotely capable of running win98. i know ive tried.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 01:10:57 am by Nuke »
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
Well, the upgrade is complete, though I haven't finished installing or setting up all my software or games yet.  I was about to install my *ahem* copy of Win98SE, until we realized that I didn't have the product code available, so since he had an install for Linux on a flashdrive, I asked him to install that as my alternate.  I haven't had the need to boot that up, yet.  In fact, a game that I have that barely ran under Windows XP, appears to run flawlessly under Win7, even without selecting XP compatibility mode.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
 :bump:
Hopefully a final update on this.

I've been trying to get one of my WinXP games working on Win7, but to no avail.  I even used the included WinXP compatibility mode.  Unfortunately, both times I tried to get it to work I ended up with a disruption to Win7.  The first time I managed to use a restore point and got the system working again, unfortunately my attempt last Friday resulted in a complete inability to restore the system, and my brother-in-law/tech-guy ran out of time on his cell-phone (and ONLY phone) so I couldn't call him for help.  So I decided that I should try out Linux in the meantime and booted into it.  I also hooked up my new Bell DSL modem/wireless network box.  After a few tries, I got it hooked up and logged onto the internet.  It was then that I noticed a "Linux Updates Pending" message, and thought that it would be a good idea to update the OS... BIG mistake.  It seems that while Windows updates are fool proof, Linux updates are not.  It seems that Linux goes ape and updates everything that it can get its hands on, though not necessarily the PROPER updates.  It appears that it updated the firmware for my on-board LAN, causing it to completely refuse to function for both Win7 and Linux.  That said, both OSes say that its there and working, but it refuses to recognize any cable that's attached.

Anyway, I attempted to reinstall Win7, but the reinstall failed, leaving me with a continuous message that the install failed and that I had to reboot to continue, leading to the same message.  I called MS's tech support and their guy helped me complete the reinstall, be we couldn't solve the internet access issue, so I had to do an over-the-phone register.  After trying several different approaches including a BIOS flash and simply swapping a cable, I ended up throwing up my hands in failure.  After my brother-in-law paid us a visit on Monday, he pledged to come over and fix the issue.  The resolution was to install an extra LAN card he had.  Thankfully, I am now back on the net.

As for the game that started all this mess, well, I haven't tried it again, but I heard about a more extensive WinXP legacy mode that needs to be downloaded, which may offer success.
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Offline Admiral LSD

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
As mentioned earlier, XP Mode needs Win7 Pro or better (it used to require a CPU with VT extensions as well, but MS relaxed that in an update last year). Also, it's designed for older business software that hasn't been or never will be updated for Vista/7 you don't get the performance or features (notably hardware video acceleration) needed for it to be even remotely useful for games.

edit: VirtualBox offers limited support for hardware acceleration, possibly enough for a basic game, but doesn't integrate as neatly into the system as XP Mode which will list and let you run apps in it from your normal Start Menu, show them on the SuperBar, etc despite being a self-contained XP image running in a Virtual PC VM.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 09:39:09 pm by Admiral LSD »
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Offline MachManX

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Re: Upgrading My System Tomorrow. Comments or Suggestions?
I don't think it's possible to run Win98SE, or even ME on these newer boards...there is no support for them and you won't find any drivers.  These new boards are specifically designed for Windows 2000 and above. 

If you have hardware issues, I recommend exchanging the board for another one as one hardware issue will lead to the continual destruction of the other components of the board.  It's just less headache down the road.  Don't even hesitate on this, just get an exchange.  As for linux support, you should look for that before buying the board.  That said, this board, including the network card, is supported by 32 and 64 bit versions of Linux.  Drivers can be found at the realtek website.

As for your old computer, did you "zero format" the drives?  Or are you simply using the Windows disk to format it?  Because the Windows disk DOES NOT fully format the drive.  If you want to get rid of viruses from hard drives, then Zero Format, or writing a completely random stream of data to it will erase any existence of any kind of data on the drive.  I recommend Darik's Boot and Nuke for such an operation.  Just remember...use this and EVERYTHING is lost on that hard drive!

Finally, it's kinda sucks to have to run legacy applications on such a modern computer.  If you post the application/game names you are trying to run in compatibility mode or having trouble with, perhaps we can help you find a proper solution.  Someone on this forum may already know the solution...you never know until you ask :)
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