[mjn.mixael]

Not everything is for everyone. Hades once asked me in IRC what I thought of the new Medusa, and my opinion still stands - I don't care for it. I've listed out my rationale, and that rationale is entirely valid. This is not to say I think it's a bad mesh; the model itself is very well modeled. I just don't care for the direction taken with the model.

Simultaneously, if you want something done the way you want it done, do it yourself. And this is exactly what Hades did with the new Medusa. He also carried out his vision for it, despite any opinions otherwise. While that bull-headedness can be a bit obnoxious in the way in which it's expressed, as a fellow artist I will commend Hades for doing something he wanted to do, and then make something out of it. Good work, kiddo. 

I wish more people around here would have that attitude. As an artist myself, I've noticed how everyone seems to think that I work for them and that my work needs to meet their desires. I'll listen to criticism that comes with valid rational, but I won't necessarily act on it because when rubber meets the road, this is my work.

[Rampage]

We already have mostly completed WIPs for many of the retail models, but it seems that many of them become mired during the UVmapping/texturing phase that they are ultimately abandoned.

[T-LoW]

Not everything is for everyone. Hades once asked me in IRC what I thought of the new Medusa, and my opinion still stands - I don't care for it. I've listed out my rationale, and that rationale is entirely valid. This is not to say I think it's a bad mesh; the model itself is very well modeled. I just don't care for the direction taken with the model.

Simultaneously, if you want something done the way you want it done, do it yourself. And this is exactly what Hades did with the new Medusa. He also carried out his vision for it, despite any opinions otherwise. While that bull-headedness can be a bit obnoxious in the way in which it's expressed, as a fellow artist I will commend Hades for doing something he wanted to do, and then make something out of it. Good work, kiddo. 

I wish more people around here would have that attitude. As an artist myself, I've noticed how everyone seems to think that I work for them and that my work needs to meet their desires. I'll listen to criticism that comes with valid rational, but I won't necessarily act on it because when rubber meets the road, this is my work.

Oh noes - Rise of the modellers. Somebody stop them!


I think everybody should keep these statements in the back of their heads while criticising. But you are of course never forced to change things you like on your models (people who still try this are mostly under the age of 14 - physically and / or mentally )

[Hades]

Dear Hades just a few things.

The Fenris model is not only a old model, it's also a brilliant model. VA's creations, at least this one and a few others i can remember, are the best examples of performance and appearance INGAME (sorry for the caps, just trying to make a point).
The fact that many of our newer models are also brilliant, does not mean everything can replaced just because of the poly count. A wise - guy like VA perhaps can reach "higher skies". I am sure that the first one who 'd agree would be VA himself (i'll personally oppose, but as you know, i am a Conservative bastard . But who cares what i vote anyway).
So, if you have a proposal, just do it. Just do not count just on poly - count.

The Fenris model is a brilliant model but the model of KARMA, and I'm not saying an old mesh which could use upgrading is bad or otherwise, and it is true that the Fenris is a good balance of performance and appearance.

And I realise that, I do not model on the basis of 'gotta make it have SUPEEEER POLYGONS', I model on the basis of making it look good while keeping all the parts we all know and love.
I thank you for your post, peterv, and yes, you are a poet

Not everything is for everyone. Hades once asked me in IRC what I thought of the new Medusa, and my opinion still stands - I don't care for it. I've listed out my rationale, and that rationale is entirely valid. This is not to say I think it's a bad mesh; the model itself is very well modeled. I just don't care for the direction taken with the model.

Simultaneously, if you want something done the way you want it done, do it yourself. And this is exactly what Hades did with the new Medusa. He also carried out his vision for it, despite any opinions otherwise. While that bull-headedness can be a bit obnoxious in the way in which it's expressed, as a fellow artist I will commend Hades for doing something he wanted to do, and then make something out of it. Good work, kiddo. 

I wish more people around here would have that attitude. As an artist myself, I've noticed how everyone seems to think that I work for them and that my work needs to meet their desires. I'll listen to criticism that comes with valid rational, but I won't necessarily act on it because when rubber meets the road, this is my work.

Agreed. I notice that the general attitude towards modelers around here, mainly for the FSU, is that they are just tools to be squeezed of their talent in making something how others want it. And that was what I was trying to get at with my other post, that I will model what I want, when I want, and here are my reasons.

I just woke up ad posted this so call 1-800-tell-me-how-my-posting-is if you have any problems (okay not really)

[Thaeris]

It is indeed very easy to get offended on either side of the line with regards to what the FSU implements in terms of assets. However, modelers should also keep in mind that what they are submitting very well might end up being used in-game. As such, end users cannot (or rather, should not) be entirely dismissed when a model is under scrutiny for any reason.

...But then again, I'll reference my proir statements. Ultimately it comes down to striking a balance. If neither group can be accomodated in what they're doing, we'll end up with a damaging situation within the FSU.

[General Battuta]

Honestly you see so little of these ships that I'm pretty sure the basic detail stuff only matters to the people who model (past a point). Usually it's just 'there is a blob shape with brackets around it, now i will fire guns, that is a nice explosion nighteyes you did good'

The HTL models just need to look pretty good and not have ****ty mapping. I guess the Deimos is starting to look a little old but the rest I barely notice, esp. if it has a cockpit.

[MatthTheGeek]

Really, that thread makes no sense. I am always right, anyone that thinks the contrary is wrong. Trololololo

[Hades]

Really, that thread makes no sense. I am always right, anyone that thinks the contrary is wrong. Trololololo

What thread, do you mean this one?

[MatthTheGeek]

Yeah. It's all about modellers creativity vs what the guys who don't model think the ship should look like.

And my opinion > everyone's, so I am the one that should decide how all those models should look like.

Isn't that how it works ?

[Rga_Noris]

I'm going to chime in and say that while input from the community is important and should be taken into account when modelling, you ultimately need to satisfy your own vision.

If you take everything everyone says into account everytime, you will be constructing a model that you have no idea how to finish, because the goal you're aiming for is not your own, and you will never know when you have achieved the goal.

[Mars]

I don't think anyone is trying to insult the older models. The Deimos was made so long ago I'd have to say it actually looks good for its age.

I clearly am not a modeler. I am a forumite. Modelers can do what they like, but if they don't want any criticism, they could probably have a mod lock the announcement thread or something.

[Hades]

No, no, it's not that I don't want any criticism, I just don't want everyone to expect me to agree with every bit of it and implement it. You're free to give constructive criticism, in fact, I love constructive critcism, just not all of it I will agree with or implement.

[Mars]

  I wasn't thinking of you in particular.

I do think that some people are taking this the wrong way though, I really don't think the point of this discussion was to put down modelers at all.

The original point was that some older, previously updated models could use some updating. I think this is valid.

I think for instance, the retail Mentu (with the mapping updates of FSO) looks better than the original update to the Ursa. It's not that I think Firecrack it did a bad job, merely that it wasn't as good as it could be now, and is in need if more help than some retail assets.

Another example: I think one reason why the Hatshepsut went so long without an update is because it still looked pretty good thanks to glow maps and normals.

[Hades]

Ah okay.

And I will be doing a new Ursa sometime soon, after a couple of models.

[Kolgena]

That's great to hear!

(And uh, request to make it even more robust-looking than your medusa. Make it look like it has a tubful of HP)

[Rga_Noris]

This is quickly reading like a counciling session between modelers and critics. When do we cry and hug?

[Snail]

This is quickly reading like a counciling session between modelers and critics. When do we cry and hug?

When we are waist-deep in blood and bodies.