[an0n]

C++ is probably the easiest (if you can remember to put the damn prototypes in).

*walks off grumbling something about prototypes and nuclear weapons*

[Kamikaze]

LISP is fun Looks pretty simple too, although I'm still studying the very basics of it

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Azrael
wahts a good language for a complete noob in puter programming to start off looking into??

Learn Python.

Python is free. There are development environements for Python that are free. The interpreter is free. The source is free. There's loads of free documentation. There's loads of free online support.

How about a more complex answer:

Python has a large standard library to draw from.

The interactive interpreter lets you try things on the fly. If they don't work, you can change them on the spot. There is no compile or link steps. Its write-and-run.

Since python is self documented, you don't have to go looking for a book with arcane instructions. Want to know what you can do with a list object? Just do a 'dir(object)'. It will tell you what you can do. Not enough? Do a 'print object.method.__doc__' and it will tell you the syntax.  With Python you can be writing useful

Python scripts will run on any platform that Python runs on. There's no recompile. The scripts I write for my FreeBSD box work on Macs, Windows machines, mainframes and PDAs.

Python isn't some niche thing: games like Freedom Force are based around python scripting.

The best thing about Python is that it teaches the basics of programming without placing too many shackles on you. You don't have to try to figure out C's 'heap' or pointers or the like. You don't have to go through the old standard 'code-compile-test-fix-compile-test-fix-compile-test' loop. You eliminate compiles from the process. You can, in many cases code and test in realtime, and change your code IN PLACE whilst it is running.

Learn Python first, get your mind around programming concepts and then take a look at traditional languages like C/C++ and the like.  There's no need to dive in and mess around with memory managment when you're still trying to figure out loops and conditionals.

[vadar_1]

If you want to start programming?

Start with QBasic and HTML... That gives you a baseline for simple windows console programming logic... and how to create simple websites.... Then you can take a quick course of pascal... but thats a little outdated, but thats where I started... Then you can move onto learning C, and then to PHP, you'll find C and PHP are directly related.

[Bobboau]

I learned most of what I know by programing my TI83,
it's basicly, well, BASIC, not as many stupid mistakes you are alowed to make in most languages,
hell it's nearly imposable to get even a spelling error, that's one of the reasons I loved my TI83,
unfortunatly, I lost it, and I had it painted with shiny gold and silver with a purdy metalic purple back plate too

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
Yes, but a complex program isn't all that complex if it is simply made by thousands of compounded simple logic commands. I guess math nuts find it easy.

Haha. Write me a simple "video store control" style program with database access on assembler, and then we'll talk.

And Python is cool, but Java is far more powerful and flexible, and has an even larger "standard library" and support...

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Styxx

And Python is cool, but Java is far more powerful and flexible, and has an even larger "standard library" and support...

What makes Java more powerful? I'll agree with you about the larger standard library, but not about the support.

Also, java shouldn't be different from platform to platform, but in practice, it is. Different VMs are broken in different ways. Python is the same from platform to platform.

More importantly, the original poster asked for a good language for complete n00bs. Somehow, I just don't think that Java, with its C-like syntax is good for this. The syntax is cryptic for the n00b, the same as it is for C and C++. That's why teaching languages like Pascal and BASIC exist. Of course they don't meet the requirements either: he asked for useful. You can do lots of stuff in BASIC and Pascal, but you wouldn't want to. I put forth Python as a good language because its powerful, featureful, easy to write, easy to read, interactive, and most importantly USEFUL.

Oh, and whomever suggested ASM needs to be beaten with that frozen goat that floats about. Not only is ASM completely and utterly hardware specific, but its like trying to work out volumetric solutions on an abacus: you can do it, but nothing short of an intense masochism would make you want to do so.

[Styxx]

Well, I tend to think in large-scale applications lately. Java has the best support for corporative applications - including transparent persistency services, messaging, remote access, security, directory services, and a lot more. You'll never find a CRM application written in Python, and I'm almost sure you can't find any current one that's not written or being ported to Java. It is perfect for server applications, provides one of the easiest and most powerful page-script systems (JSP/Servlets) that integrate smoothly into a flexible component system (JavaBeans/EJBs), and the support for client-side graphical applications is increasing, as is the speed - I ran some tests with Java3D and GL4Java, and it won't be long until you can make a high-end game with it, specially with the DMA support added on the latest JDK.

But programming language is more a matter of taste than anything else - I'm all for Java right now, but I can switch to anything else that sounds better at any time. It would pay to get a look at every major language out there now, and then start learning the one that looks more promising.

Ah, try some PERL too - you can do wonders with almost no code with it.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Styxx
Well, I tend to think in large-scale applications lately. Java has the best support for corporative applications - including transparent persistency services, messaging, remote access, security, directory services, and a lot more. You'll never find a CRM application written in Python, and I'm almost sure you can't find any current one that's not written or being ported to Java. It is perfect for server applications, provides one of the easiest and most powerful page-script systems (JSP/Servlets) that integrate smoothly into a flexible component system (JavaBeans/EJBs), and the support for client-side graphical applications is increasing, as is the speed - I ran some tests with Java3D and GL4Java, and it won't be long until you can make a high-end game with it, specially with the DMA support added on the latest JDK.

But programming language is more a matter of taste than anything else - I'm all for Java right now, but I can switch to anything else that sounds better at any time. It would pay to get a look at every major language out there now, and then start learning the one that looks more promising.

Ah, try some PERL too - you can do wonders with almost no code with it.

Styxx, that's not what he asked for. He asked for:

wahts a good language for a complete noob in puter programming to start off looking into??

Java is a good language, its a portable language, but its not the best place to learn. The syntax, to this day, after a decade of screwing with it, hurts my brain. That's not a good sign. We're not talking about corporate enivronments or networked applications. We're talking about a n00b wanting a good place to start to learn the basic skills. Things like Java are NOT that place.

Don't even talk about Perl. Perl is the WORST way to learn programming skills. There are so many undocumented, ad-hoc, screwy ways to do any single thing, that no two people write the same dialect of Perl. Perl has no structure (and indeed encourages disorganisation). Its a great thing for a quick hack, or a rough and ready kludge, but its like suggesting that someone build a house with every old thing they find in a junkyard. You can do it. It will shelter you. It'll even last for a while. But no one except the builder will know how the damn thing is wired for electricity and where the sewer pipes are and where those loose welds will break.

[CP5670]

Haha. Write me a simple "video store control" style program with database access on assembler, and then we'll talk.

That would actually be quite simple if I knew all the syntax; that is the only part that can be considered "hard," but it is really all just memorization. The thing is that any language that operates solely on the logical 0-1 principles can be put into series of mathematical equations, and with some knowledge of logical systems and applied discrete math (computer science), anyone can program in ASM. It might take a bit longer to write, but the sheer joy of working with true logic and mathematics more than makes up for that.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by CP5670


That would actually be quite simple if I knew all the syntax; that is the only part that can be considered "hard," but it is really all just memorization. The thing is that any language that operates solely on the logical 0-1 principles can be put into series of mathematical equations, and with some knowledge of logical systems and applied discrete math (computer science), anyone can program in ASM. It might take a bit longer to write, but the sheer joy of working with true mathematics more than makes up for that.

A Turing machine of any order and complexity can always be emulated by a touring machine of the lowest order, given enough time. That doesn't make it a good idea.

[CP5670]

Yeah, it's not too good for practical applications, but it is certainly a lot more fun.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by CP5670
Yeah, it's not too good for practical applications, but it is certainly a lot more fun.

Hehe, indeed, I have to agree with that. Once I made a full disk editor, with graphical interface and mouse support in asm - it was the largest thing I ever programmed with the blasted language, but watching it work once it was done was so much more rewarding than when you do stuff with any other languages...

And about all the Java stuff - indeed, I kinda missed the point there. I still think that Java is damn easy to learn, you just need to know the concepts for object orientation and you're set. Well, it might have helped that I already had some six years experience with C/C++ and PHP (not to mention all the other obscure stuff) before that, but it just feels so easy to code...

Ah, and the comment about PERL was supposed to be a joke.