Author Topic: I need a radio astronomer  (Read 3884 times)

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
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How would you define and describe a radio signal from near or within the solar system, omnidirectional, very complex and containing intricate but not necessarily artificial patterns? Invent a notional signal that could meet these parameters. You don't need to worry about a source, but it would be nice if it could be mistaken for something natural.

Not a radio astronomer (I've so far stuck to optical in my journey to my degrees), but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!  By which I mean, I had to do a radio lab for my astronomy lab last quarter.  Anyway, I would describe it as having very complex modulation with a packed frequency spectrum, lots of power everywhere.

This will not be mistaken for something natural, IF it is as you describe it (more on that a bit later).  No way in hell if it's as complex as you say, especially if it keeps repeating.  All the natural solar system radio sources look like a big burst of noise, even if they do have periodicities in them.  In astronomer speak, their power spectra tend to be very broad, no definite sharp peaks anywhere.  This signal would have a definite peak that stood out above the others, the carrier wave, which would be the strongest.  However, like Nuke mentioned, you can easily make an artificial signal almost completely indistinguishable from natural sources if you apply enough modulation to it; most modern radio signals are this way, such that they look like random noise until you apply the correct demodulation.  Since this is a high tech artificial device, I would imagine that it would be much the same way, and indistinguishable from natural sources.

But what is the frequency(ies) this is broadcasting on?  In certain bands, it would be a dead giveaway that it's artificial, because nothing natural (that we know of) emits at those frequencies.  For example, if it emits at 21 cm, it'll be immediately known that something funny is going on, because the only natural source is neutral hydrogen, and the only appreciable emission is on a galactic scale.  Seeing high flux from inside the Solar System would raise immediate "WTF?" looks and exclamations.  If, on the other hand, it emits around 20 MHz, well, Jupiter's magnetosphere, the Sun, the Milky Way, and quite a lot else radiates at that.  So it could be disguised for a long time if the modulation is such that it can fight across the noise produced by all the stuff around it.

In any case, Mika provided a good overview of some radio telescope basics; I'll expand on what he's written.  A radio telescope doesn't have appreciable side lobes by design; to achieve as much resolution as possible without resorting to interferometry, the current design of a big dish and shielded antenna kinda necessitates itself.  The dish also obviously helps gather more radiation.  A typical radio telescope will have multiple antennas, each of which is called a "feed," each of which is tuned to a different frequency range, along with a single polarization.  The signal processing is fairly simple; the data is read in from each feed, amplified, down-converted, and separated out by Fourier analysis to get the amount of power at each frequency, and also to read the radiation's phase.  Since this is usually all radio astronomers care about, this is where it usually stops.  If it's a transient search, more Fourier stuff can be used to get power spectra over time, etc.

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Mika, thank you, that was a good read. If it's not too much bother, what would you say if the recipient was a distributed antenna, as in radio interferometry?
Really, not much changes.  With interferometry, you get better resolution, and that's really it.  Unless you are using VLBI (Very Long Baseline Interferometry), you won't be able to tell if it's a focused tight beam or an omnidirectional emitter; depending on its distance, maybe not even then.  If the source is on Jupiter and you are standing on Earth, even if the source is focusing the radiation as tightly as possible (a radio laser, if you will), the beam will still probably cover the planet.  Basically, you need to be able to observe at significantly different angles with respect to the source.  This may not be possible except with ships, and they probably won't be set up for the wavelengths that this thing would use to disguise itself, so they may not even be able to see it.

By the way, if you want me to vet any astronomical dialog or anything once it's written, I'd be glad to help.

 

Offline Mika

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
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I've so far stuck to optical in my journey to my degrees

That's the best place to get stuck at.

The artificial signal that does frequency hopping is rather close to the background noise indeed. But it is also very difficult and unlikely to be detected if the hopping frequencies are not known beforehand - or suspected that something like that might be at play; I would think that the current capabilities wouldn't allow for detection of that kind of signal across the frequency spectrum.

If the radiation source is small (in relative terms) and close (in angular terms, not in distance terms) to a distant star, and the emitting power is adjusted according to the power coming from a distant star, the signal would be interpreted to be coming from a star if the signal source and the star are inside a telescope's resolution limit. Assuming that the object would otherwise be difficult to detect within other wavelengths.

Even though I have sat in front of a white light interferometer probably for a year (hey, it at least felt like that), I can't help with stellar interferometry that uses radio waves. I'm not familiar with the used techniques and synthetic aperture imaging, I only know that it allows for a better resolution, but I don't know the theory behind it.

Wait a sec, did I just write there how Battuta's question could be solved?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 01:40:22 pm by Mika »
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
You guys rock. I can get a lot of good stuff out of this.

The signal would be very very brief. How brief can I get away with? At the moment I have about 2.5 seconds down but that may be ridiculous.

 

Offline Mika

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
Before going to pulse length, there are two more things that need to be considered if the source is to be masked with a background object (galaxy or a star). First is the parallax, the apparent motion of the source is different from the background. But, if the source remains inside the angle that the full background object is stationed when viewed from Earth, it shouldn't be possible to separate these two with parallax if the source is not detectable with other wavelengths. The other thing is the red shift, that should be accounted by the mysterious source, if it is to lie in front of a distant source object undetected. Or that could provide a mechanism to detect it, I don't know. "That's weird, the red shift is slightly different from last time" "Can't be, recalibrate the instrument" etc...
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 

Offline Mika

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
What kind of pulse do you mean?

A pulse of length 2.5 s that is never again repeated, or repeated with some frequency?
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
My initial thought was never repeated, but the nature of the story is such that I can tweak that if needed, though not to a total elapsed interval between first and last pulse of more than a minute or two.

 
Re: I need a radio astronomer
Who's listening?  Is anyone?  If it's at an unused band, it is very unlikely that anyone will have their receivers both tuned to that, and, in the case of a radio telescope, pointed at the source.  So it may go entirely undetected if the signal does not repeat after those 2.5 s.  If it is actually detected, something 2.5 seconds long could be worthy of followup, but it may easily be lost in the noise of whatever source people were observing.  Just by statistics, you expect to see a few weirdly high noise peaks in a couple hours of data, and it may simply be ignored as one of those.  So I suppose the question is:  do you want this thing to be detected and taken seriously or not?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
I'd like to use the bands recently opened by the European LOFAR, so 10-250 mHz? And it's actually good if it would primarily be ignored, as I'd like it to pop out only to a certain character but not to the broader community.

 
Re: I need a radio astronomer
There's a lot of terrestrial noise there; lots of people transmitting and receiving on pretty much all portions of it.  You could easily create a signal that one specific character would have a subconscious flash on or something and be ignored by everyone else as noise or a blip or what have you.  Here's a current map of the VHF band; the HF band below it is mostly used for amateur radio and long range terrestrial communication (reflects off the ionosphere).  I imagine these bands would only get more crowded in the future, since they make for convenient antenna lengths.

Astronomically, this range is mostly marked by bright, compact sources; there's not a whole lot of diffuse galactic emission there.  A big survey array like LOFAR might pick this up, and it could be dismissed by just about everyone.  Maybe your character (presuming he's a radio astronomer, here) could notice that funny thing in the blip that everyone else misses.  That's more plausible than you might think.  However, he wouldn't be able to do a whole lot with it; without a repeat of the signal, or better yet, several, getting a wide spectrum detection is kind of a pipe dream (maybe he gets really lucky, and someone was observing that the same night he was in a different band).  And obviously, if it repeats too much, others will notice.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
You're awesome.

 
Re: I need a radio astronomer
In a total coincidence, this month's Physics Today happened to have an article on LOFAR and how it works.  Turns out it's a big-ass survey array, so it has a huge field of view and is specifically designed to observe its entire bandwidth at once.  So if something like this is operating in your story, not only would it plausibly see the signal, it would see it in every band.  Someone would definitely take notice of the signal were it to be detected by this kind of array.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
That's okay - just as long as it looks like statistical junk to most of the people watching.

  

Offline Mika

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Re: I need a radio astronomer
Well, I thought I had seen a picture of a radio telescope without a central dish...
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.