[Titan]

Don't forget that nun that was exocommunicated for permitting an abortion on a woman who would've died if she went into labor. Not necessarily the pope's direct fault, but...

[Luis Dias]

Don't forget that nun that was exocommunicated for permitting an abortion on a woman who would've died if she went into labor. Not necessarily the pope's direct fault, but...

Is that an actual crime? Puh lease.

[Topgun]

The government has no right messing with religion.

[NGTM-1R]

They should also retro-actively include every other crime every previous pope has commited too, so we just get rid of that position entirely. Cause what the **** has the pope actually done that counts as good towards the world? The crusades? Yeah I don't think so.

Not only is the sins of the father a hell of a legal theory to pretend to in this day and age, but the central governing machinery of the RCC and by extension the office of the papacy is actually a fairly strong check on efforts to radicalize the institution. As much as we may deride the Roman Catholic Church it is helpful to remember that of politically active religions in the western world it is among the most moderate.

Most of the political power behind religion-based initiatives we abhor in the US is rooted in evangelical Baptist or Calvinist groups which have no organizing central structure and can instead be lead about by anyone with enough passion to convince. The Papacy and the Vatican inject an element of legality and rationality into the proceedings of the Church that other strains of Christianity can lack.

[karajorma]

The government has no right messing with religion.

Quite right. So the American government shouldn't have granted the Pope immunity in the cases of sexual abuse of minors if it did it on the basis that he's a religious figure, right?

Not messing with religion should go both ways.

[NGTM-1R]

Quite right. So the American government shouldn't have granted the Pope immunity in the cases of sexual abuse of minors if it did it on the basis that he's a religious figure, right?

He's also a foreign head of state as the US recognizes the Vatican as a country. As such his person is sancrosact. We allow people who are probably complicit in acts against US citizens or the United States (say, the Iranian president, or Israeli Prime Minister) to visit this country and address the UN or meet with US politicians. Religion has very little to do with it.

[karajorma]

You might have a point if it weren't for the fact that it's only due to religion that the US recognises the Vatican as a state in the first place. The UN doesn't. It's only a member on a special case basis, not as an actual state.

[NGTM-1R]

You might have a point if it weren't for the fact that it's only due to religion that the US recognises the Vatican as a state in the first place. The UN doesn't. It's only a member on a special case basis, not as an actual state.

The UN doesn't because the UN's membership doesn't want the Vatican to be a state because they're not Christian? While true, it's also not true in the way you'd like it to be. They believe that by withholding recognition in the UN they are denying power to the Roman Catholic Church, not that the RCC does not merit it.

Nearly all of Europe recognizes the statehood of the Vatican, even the parts that are strongly Protestant. The Vatican has a proper ambassadorial system, the Papal Nuncios. They are treated in nearly every country as an ambassador would be, even China and back in the bad old days the USSR did so. Withholding recognition of statehood in the UN is a fig leaf to hide behind in this case. The Pope wields a public power in his sphere comparable to most heads of state. (Which is to say, not very much.)

[Topgun]

The government has no right messing with religion.

Quite right. So the American government shouldn't have granted the Pope immunity in the cases of sexual abuse of minors if it did it on the basis that he's a religious figure, right?

Not messing with religion should go both ways.

indeed. I am talking about what titan said.

[karajorma]

Actually I shouldn't have even brought the American government into this. The Pope's (somewhat dubious) status as head of state is exactly why this is being brought before the ICC in the first place.