[Unknown Target]

There was a peaceful protest which was hijacked by troublemakers. Very much the same thing has happened in quite a few protests recently. The troublemakers have no actual connection to whatever the protest is about but use the cover of the crowd as an excuse for looting.

There's a really good reason why I mentioned football hooliganism in my earlier post. This was exactly the same thing basically, people taking advantage of an opportunity to cause trouble. Unlike football hooliganism, with no opposing side to go after the focus is more on stealing things but make no mistake, the two are related.

How often do football hooligans complain about sentencing being too severe? Seriously, I don't know; I'm seeing if perhaps a correlation can be found or at least an alternative case study.

[karajorma]

Sentences for the same sort of crime usually involve jail time (around 2-4 years) and long bans from attending football games for 4-8 years after that.

[MP-Ryan]

Bull****. It is not enough to simply intend or discuss a crime. There must be action. You are attempting to run the Thought Police and have therefore abrogated any claim to justice.

At least one of these people never acted.

Wrong.  Attempting to incite a riot, the evidence of which was gathered electronically, is sufficient actus reus for a properly-defined offense.

Conspiracy charges, attempted charges, etc are well-founded in criminal law in several Common law nations (US included).  The UK appears to have an offense of "encouraging or assisting crime" on the books, which replaced incitement.  Regardless, Common law also has provisions for party to an offense, accessory to an offence, and aiding/abetting.  All of these are considered actions for the purposes of criminal law in Common law countries.

Short answer:  planning a crime is also a criminal offense in many situations, even if the original crime was not actually committed.  That's true in the US, UK, Canada, and Australia (to name a few).

[MP-Ryan]

And for reference, the people given four years for planning plead guilty under the following sections of the Serious Crime Act 2007:

44Intentionally encouraging or assisting an offence

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he does an act capable of encouraging or assisting the commission of an offence; and

(b)he intends to encourage or assist its commission.

(2)But he is not to be taken to have intended to encourage or assist the commission of an offence merely because such encouragement or assistance was a foreseeable consequence of his act.

46Encouraging or assisting offences believing one or more will be committed

(1)A person commits an offence if—

(a)he does an act capable of encouraging or assisting the commission of one or more of a number of offences; and

(b)he believes—

(i)that one or more of those offences will be committed (but has no belief as to which); and

(ii)that his act will encourage or assist the commission of one or more of them.

(2)It is immaterial for the purposes of subsection (1)(b)(ii) whether the person has any belief as to which offence will be encouraged or assisted.

(3)If a person is charged with an offence under subsection (1)—

(a)the indictment must specify the offences alleged to be the “number of offences” mentioned in paragraph (a) of that subsection; but

(b)nothing in paragraph (a) requires all the offences potentially comprised in that number to be specified.

(4)In relation to an offence under this section, reference in this Part to the offences specified in the indictment is to the offences specified by virtue of subsection (3)(a).

The penalties for those offences are outlined here:

58Penalties

(1)Subsections (2) and (3) apply if—

(a)a person is convicted of an offence under section 44 or 45; or

(b)a person is convicted of an offence under section 46 by reference to only one offence (“the reference offence”).

(2)If the anticipated or reference offence is murder, he is liable to imprisonment for life.

(3)In any other case he is liable to any penalty for which he would be liable on conviction of the anticipated or reference offence.

(4)Subsections (5) to (7) apply if a person is convicted of an offence under section 46 by reference to more than one offence (“the reference offences”).

(5)If one of the reference offences is murder, he is liable to imprisonment for life.

(6)If none of the reference offences is murder but one or more of them is punishable with imprisonment, he is liable—

(a)to imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum term provided for any one of those offences (taking the longer or the longest term as the limit for the purposes of this paragraph where the terms provided differ); or

(b)to a fine.

(7)In any other case he is liable to a fine.

(8)Subsections (3), (6) and (7) are subject to any contrary provision made by or under—

(a)an Act; or

(b)Northern Ireland legislation.

(9)In the case of an offence triable either way, the reference in subsection (6) to the maximum term provided for that offence is a reference to the maximum term so provided on conviction on indictment.

So, if you encourage or assist an offence, including inciting disorder, you are liable to receive the penalties associated with the disorder itself under UK law.