[Mika]

Well, I've never quite understood the whole concept of 'Never the twain shall meet' with regards to Capitalism and Socialism, it's not as if they are usually treated as extreme opposites of each other in practice. Most socialist countries supplement their income with some nice healthy Capitalism, and most Capitalist countries have a certain amount of Socialism. It's when the extremes are employed that trouble usually starts, and the best bet, to me, seems to be a mixture of both.

No arguments here

The interesting thing about Socialism and Capitalism from the point of view of a person living in either is that the Socialism is egalitarian by nature, while Capitalism allows significant differences between individuals. For a long time it has been discussed here that Socialistic tendencies diminish the number of extraordinary people; they are actually not tolerated, do not integrate in the general population, and people are envious, since they are too smart or do well in life or whatever. Instead, what is usually seen is that his wealth or whatever must be taken from somebody else's back skin, and thus wrong. No wonder relatively large amount of smart educated people leave this country in a year, as they seem to feel that the whole country is restrictive and holds them back. Also, the effect of social security has been questioned. It should allow basic safety (roof and a warm house, bread and water) for people that get fired and this I find acceptable. However, when it becomes so that staying at home not working is more profitable than working something is very much wrong.

Now note, EU itself has started to have socialistic tendencies, we are the only country in the EMU who has managed to keep the national debt within the limits given by the agreements. But what happens, is that if we pay the support packages to Greece and to that European Monetary Reserve something, we need to take more debt ourselves, and this will effectively double our national debt! Thus we pay the largest comparative fraction of the support package as a result! That's being penalized for doing something right(!), then again we have seen this happen here individually already. But nationwide, this is seriously ****ed! Like our taxes weren't already ridiculously high, I pay about 40% income tax, and my gross salary is about half I could get in Central Europe. Sorry, correction, what I could have got in the Central Europe. And I cannot guarantee that our political system isn't ****ed enough to accept this **** without general public approval.

Sorry about ranting

[Woolie Wool]

Welcome to the EU and EMU zone where profits are privatized and losses socialized!

Welcome to the West human civilization!

Fixed that for you. Corruption is as old as history itself.

[Grizzly]

However, when it becomes so that staying at home not working is more profitable than working something is very much wrong.

Happens here too. The system is rather broken. Would you rather earn money and spend time with your kids or work all day for equal or less pay and be forced to send your children to daycare (which is very expensive)?

[JCDNWarrior]

When you are rewarded for not-working is when a economy and the whole system is really going wrong. It also generates a lot of dependancy on government as it provides the money as well as more burden on the middle class.

It also doesnt end well when you are forced to cut costs and give less or no money to the welfare class, they're sure to revolt.

In the end it seems like quite a way to self destruct an economy and country as a whole. Who benefits of such a thing, or is it purely short sightedness?

[Flipside]

Of course, you could do it like the old days, where you started off giving the poorest people nothing and having a revolt that much sooner...

It's not really a question of the support of the unemployed, it's not a pleasant responsibility when you pay taxes, but with the economy as it is, you never know when you'll be glad of the system.

The problem is, I think, twofold. There is, and probably always will be, the issue of the system players, those who will abuse any system for personal gain, whether that be the benefits system, or the stock market, the mentality is the same. The second problem, I think, is a complete lack of concern on the part of the Government, after all, it's not their money they are spending, so they don't mind if the contract is x million more than it needed to be, they don't care that billions vanish in military campaigns and will even whitewash the whole thing so they don't have to deal with it. They don't care. This is probably one of the few issues in which I agree with Republicans, that Government should be small and streamlined and work as efficiently as possible.

[Mars]

Just like any other system, it can only survive if it can do at least a little self monitoring.