Author Topic: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy  (Read 7460 times)

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Offline Woolie Wool

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Re: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy
Many of those places had any cultural or political capital that could help them systematically stripped out by Western colonialists, and most of the current African nations are descended from colonies whose borders were specifically drawn to make it impossible for the colonies to be effectively governed without the interference of the imperialists. The colonialists fomented ethnic strife and internal turmoil on purpose to make their job of exploiting Africa easier.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Re: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy
Many of those places had any cultural or political capital that could help them systematically stripped out by Western colonialists, and most of the current African nations are descended from colonies whose borders were specifically drawn to make it impossible for the colonies to be effectively governed without the interference of the imperialists. The colonialists fomented ethnic strife and internal turmoil on purpose to make their job of exploiting Africa easier.

I don't disagree in the least. It's disgusting to see the kind of hole that overbearing imperialism dug for them. But at the same time, it's hard to draw the line of responsibility. At the end of the day, you could sling blame around for years and nothing good would ever come of it. Eventually, some people are going to have to say enough is enough, quit blaming things, and work to fix them. And the people over there that are suffering are going to have to help themselves. Sick of the dictators? Get rid of them. Plenty of middle eastern countries have gotten sick of being oppressed by brutality. Stop letting them steal your food, stop letting them steal your money, stop letting them sell your land's exploitation rights to international corporations. Ask for help doing all of that if you need to. When the dictators are gone and someone sane is in control, then that aid that the rest of the world sends can actually get to where it's supposed to go. I realize that it's incredibly easy for me to sit here and say this, staring at a computer screen instead of down the barrel of guns held by the death squads over there. But I think it's doing more harm than good for us to keep blindly sending whatever we can think of over there. It creates an equilibrium based on dependency and passivity.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy
Many of those places had any cultural or political capital that could help them systematically stripped out by Western colonialists, and most of the current African nations are descended from colonies whose borders were specifically drawn to make it impossible for the colonies to be effectively governed without the interference of the imperialists. The colonialists fomented ethnic strife and internal turmoil on purpose to make their job of exploiting Africa easier.

I don't disagree in the least. It's disgusting to see the kind of hole that overbearing imperialism dug for them. But at the same time, it's hard to draw the line of responsibility. At the end of the day, you could sling blame around for years and nothing good would ever come of it. Eventually, some people are going to have to say enough is enough, quit blaming things, and work to fix them. And the people over there that are suffering are going to have to help themselves. Sick of the dictators? Get rid of them. Plenty of middle eastern countries have gotten sick of being oppressed by brutality. Stop letting them steal your food, stop letting them steal your money, stop letting them sell your land's exploitation rights to international corporations. Ask for help doing all of that if you need to. When the dictators are gone and someone sane is in control, then that aid that the rest of the world sends can actually get to where it's supposed to go. I realize that it's incredibly easy for me to sit here and say this, staring at a computer screen instead of down the barrel of guns held by the death squads over there. But I think it's doing more harm than good for us to keep blindly sending whatever we can think of over there. It creates an equilibrium based on dependency and passivity.

I want you to replace every instance of references to them and others in your post with references to citizens of the United States, and then let me know how all of that "just get up and do it and ask for help if you need to" is going there.

Seriously - massive systemic social problems are not solved simply by saying "stop."  There are huge forces at play, just like there is a massive system that prevents the US from suddenly creating better economic conditions.  That system encompasses the social, historical, political, and economic reality of a country.

I agree that aid needs to be directed and accounted for, but the problem is most decidedly not the fact that many of these nations receive too much aid funding.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Re: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy
Many of those places had any cultural or political capital that could help them systematically stripped out by Western colonialists, and most of the current African nations are descended from colonies whose borders were specifically drawn to make it impossible for the colonies to be effectively governed without the interference of the imperialists. The colonialists fomented ethnic strife and internal turmoil on purpose to make their job of exploiting Africa easier.

I don't disagree in the least. It's disgusting to see the kind of hole that overbearing imperialism dug for them. But at the same time, it's hard to draw the line of responsibility. At the end of the day, you could sling blame around for years and nothing good would ever come of it. Eventually, some people are going to have to say enough is enough, quit blaming things, and work to fix them. And the people over there that are suffering are going to have to help themselves. Sick of the dictators? Get rid of them. Plenty of middle eastern countries have gotten sick of being oppressed by brutality. Stop letting them steal your food, stop letting them steal your money, stop letting them sell your land's exploitation rights to international corporations. Ask for help doing all of that if you need to. When the dictators are gone and someone sane is in control, then that aid that the rest of the world sends can actually get to where it's supposed to go. I realize that it's incredibly easy for me to sit here and say this, staring at a computer screen instead of down the barrel of guns held by the death squads over there. But I think it's doing more harm than good for us to keep blindly sending whatever we can think of over there. It creates an equilibrium based on dependency and passivity.

I want you to replace every instance of references to them and others in your post with references to citizens of the United States, and then let me know how all of that "just get up and do it and ask for help if you need to" is going there.

Seriously - massive systemic social problems are not solved simply by saying "stop."  There are huge forces at play, just like there is a massive system that prevents the US from suddenly creating better economic conditions.  That system encompasses the social, historical, political, and economic reality of a country.

I agree that aid needs to be directed and accounted for, but the problem is most decidedly not the fact that many of these nations receive too much aid funding.

I already admitted that I'm well-aware the problem is much more complex - but right now, if most of what we send is wasted, what should we do? Keep wasting it? We have three basic options: either cut aid, in which case everyone will cry, "Heartless," or we start interfering with global politics again by backing resistance movements or using military force. Bearing in mind that that's the kind of attitude that started all the problems in the first place. Or, we just stick our fingers in our ears and keep wasting our efforts and our money when we have essentially none to spare. There are no right choices. But I think we're doing more harm than good by maintaining the status quo.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy
Do you even have any definitive evidence that we're "wasting" most of what we send over there?

 

Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Re: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy
Do you even have any definitive evidence that we're "wasting" most of what we send over there?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/16/world/africa/16briefs-Somalia.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17095866

I know NPR is crap, but the experts they quoted have some credibility, especially Ayittey. And those two are just from a 2-minute Google search.

The dictators wind up with the food, the aid supplies, and they sell them, get rich, and buy more toys for their military puppets. We need to cut these people off at the knees, let the mobs tear them apart once their protection can't be bought, and THEN our aid can actually do some good.

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy
yea i think a non-interference policy would do them so good but it has to be backed by the world, not just a few of the top countries. pumping resources into these places just adds fuel to the fire. if everyone just cuts them off then the warlords will be starved of funds and will not be able to buy weapons and maintain equipment meant to brutalize their populace. this would better open the door to civilian revolt. of course they will always have a supply of weapons thanks to illegal smuggling so there is really no way to blockade these nations to cut off the import of resources.

you know we could just nuke them.
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Offline jr2

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Re: The United States Cannot Survive on a Service Economy
Anti-personnel nuke?  Hmm... so, anyone wanna come up with the thermal detonator